{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5660", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5660, "subject": "the phial, Severian's mother, and also Urth of the new Sun", "messages": 2, "voices": 2, "first": "2010-07-12T14:13:49+00:00", "last": "2010-07-12T19:44:44+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Cliff Judge", "address": "transentient at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-07-12T14:13:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the phial, Severian's mother, and also Urth of the new Sun", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The phial that the Autarch wears around his neck containing the high-powered\nalzabo gland extract - the Autarch pulled that out of his robe and showed it\nto Severian when, as an apprentice, he was leaving the house Azure.\n\nAside from the fact that the phial was shaped like a penis, which is an\namusing fact that is not reinforced when Severian is passed the reigns, I\nthink the act of waving this at the young Sev, combined with a look of\nhonest friendliness, was meant to show that Severian's visit to the House\nAzure was something of a test to see if he was really to be the next\nAutarch. Though that is a strange test. Anyway, this was something i came up\nwith when trying to figure out how how and why Severian was selected to be\nthe next Autarch and New Sun.\n\nAfter re-reading the conversation with Ouen at the end, when he asks if Ouen\nonce screwed a tall, dark, girl, and Ouen owned that he did and her name was\nCatherine, I think that Severian's mother was the apparently ageless lady\nwho came every year to play the part of Holy Katherine at the Feast. I\nstarted to think about how there was another girl who was called out as\nbeing dark - the other khaibits at the House Azure.\n\nThat might be a good explanation for why this lady never seemed to get any\nolder to the young Severian - it was a different khaibits every year. Or,\nperhaps, it was the exultant herself, who was kept young by the blood of her\nkhaibits. Anybody else think this way?\n\nFinally, a question: I am halfway through Urth of the New Sun and I cannot\nfigure out what is going on in the scene where Severian is captured by the\njibers. They bring him into a room where a holographic projection of himself\nwaves and walks forward, and they command him to do the same or else they\nwill kill him. What is going on here? Are they trying to identify him as the\nAutarch? I am not aware of any clues to suggest that this would require him\nmimicking the gestures of the hologram. Are they trying to duple his\nlikeness or something?\n\nThanks all." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-07-12T19:44:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) the phial, Severian's mother, and also Urth of the new Sun", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cliff Judge: I" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "think the act of waving this at the young Sev, combined with a look of\nhonest friendliness, was meant to show that Severian's visit to the House\nAzure was something of a test to see if he was really to be the next\nAutarch. Though that is a strange test. Anyway, this was something i came up\nwith when trying to figure out how how and why Severian was selected to be\nthe next Autarch and New Sun." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI don't think the old Autarch is involved in picking Severian. He is a failed\nNew Sun-bringer himself. I think he is old and wants to glean just a bit of\nglory or recognition or one-upsmanship as his era ends and Severian begins\n\"heh, heh, I know you are next, but you don't!\"\n \nIf the House Azure was a test I think it was passed by Severian in that\nhe could not be diverted from his adoration for Thecla by a cheap imitation." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That might be a good explanation for why this lady never seemed to get any\nolder to the young Severian - it was a different khaibits every year. Or,\nperhaps, it was the exultant herself, who was kept young by the blood of her\nkhaibits. Anybody else think this way?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nYes, it has been discussed before. But only by the craziest, most speculative\nnutjobs willing to take ridiculous leaps of faith to interpret this story.\n \nAnyway, I had a discussion with Dave Tallman about it a few years ago. He thinks\nCatherine and her clones are referenced in Dr. Talos' play. Surely the Contessa\nCarina in that play is associated with Catherine in some way. Dave noted that the\nContessa's three maids, Lybe, Solange and Kyneburga, were all named for saints who\nhad been beheaded. His theory is that Severian (and perhaps others in the past) have \nbeen tricked into thinking that, at elevation, the sword is fake (why is it so \nunexpectedly heavy to Severian?) and that the maid is really beheaded. A new clone\neach year?\n\nI dunno. But I do think the dark haired corpse in the coffin that Vodalus and his\ncrew exhume is also a version of Catherine (because of the hair and the pale gown).\nPerhaps killed by Allowin's Necklace (livid face). I also think severian seeing her\nface in Ultan's is significant." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I cannot figure out what is going on in the scene where Severian is captured by the\njibers. They bring him into a room where a holographic projection of himself\nwaves and walks forward, and they command him to do the same or else they\nwill kill him. What is going on here? Are they trying to identify him as the\nAutarch? I am not aware of any clues to suggest that this would require him\nmimicking the gestures of the hologram. Are they trying to duple his\nlikeness or something." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI can't figure it out either. Surely one of the most mysterious sequences in the \nstory. But perhaps one day some light will be shed by some insightful soul. Maybe you\nare on the right track. Maybe that scene was fake and it was really some sort of scan \nto allow the hiero-types to be able to copy Severian into an eidolon later.\n \nI think it must be significant that a guy who looks like (a younger version of?) Hethor\nis participating. Perhaps it is a malevolent rite after all? Or perhaps Hethor is really\na benign person in disguise? A little, twisted alien being who carries mirrors and has \nan attraction to pretty, young human girls...never mind, never mind. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] } ] }