{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5675", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5675, "subject": "Universes inside a black hole", "messages": 27, "voices": 8, "first": "2010-07-26T15:59:30+00:00", "last": "2010-08-04T03:18:13+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<4C4DB0E2.6070801@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T15:59:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727703.000-every-black-hole-may-hold-a-hidden-universe.html\n\nA theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists -- \nwithin a black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of \neither the Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for \neach. Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- \ncontaining black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's \nkinda gnostic.\n\nu+16b9" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T16:02:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DB0E2.6070801@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:59 AM, James Wynn wrote:\nA theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists -- ?within a\nblack hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of either the\nSun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for each. Also, if you\nthink of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing black holes that\npresumably have their own universes, it's kinda gnostic." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...or even Mormon." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T16:03:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DB0E2.6070801@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Each black hole contains a World.\n\nIt is not known if these are identical with the parallel Worlds.\n\nProbably.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727703.000-every-black-hole-may-hold-a-hidden-universe.html\n\nA theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists --\nwithin a black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of\neither the Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for\neach. Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole--\ncontaining black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's\nkinda gnostic.\n\nu+16b9\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4300e7aed49fd2c5d47f31682554b855.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T16:03:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DB0E2.6070801@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Universe is all of the Worlds.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727703.000-every-black-hole-may-hold-a-hidden-universe.html\n\nA theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists --\nwithin a black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of\neither the Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for\neach. Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole--\ncontaining black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's\nkinda gnostic.\n\nu+16b9\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<7894ba0b596bbfc6fea9d406d1d45b5c.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T16:05:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge.\n\nThe problem is most people don't actually believe their religion.\n\nWhat is believe?\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:59 AM, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "A theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists --\n?within a\nblack hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of either\nthe\nSun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for each. Also, if\nyou\nthink of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing black holes\nthat\npresumably have their own universes, it's kinda gnostic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "...or even Mormon.\n\n\n--\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C4DBA90.3030105@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T16:40:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda gnostic.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "...or even Mormon" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, as I understand it, Mormon's believe in succession of gods who \npreside over their own planets and humanity. But not a succession of \nuniverses -- comparable to gnostic aeons.\n\nu+16b9" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C4DBCA3.7010509@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T16:49:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Each black hole contains a World. It is not known if these are identical with the parallel Worlds. Probably.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Do you mean in the sense that their histories would be roughly \ncompatible? I'm not sure there could be any guarantee of that.\n\nu+16b9" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T16:59:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DBA90.3030105@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You don't understand it.\n\nYou think this is all theoretical or something.\n\nYou don't seem to actually believe any of it.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing\nblack holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda\ngnostic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "...or even Mormon" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, as I understand it, Mormon's believe in succession of gods who\npreside over their own planets and humanity. But not a succession of\nuniverses -- comparable to gnostic aeons.\n\nu+16b9\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T17:00:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DBA90.3030105@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "What is a false distinction, James Wynn?\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing\nblack holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda\ngnostic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "...or even Mormon" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, as I understand it, Mormon's believe in succession of gods who\npreside over their own planets and humanity. But not a succession of\nuniverses -- comparable to gnostic aeons.\n\nu+16b9\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T17:01:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DBCA3.7010509@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Only the parallel Worlds close to this one resemble this one.\n\nLet go of your penis.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Each black hole contains a World. It is not known if these are identical\nwith the parallel Worlds. Probably." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Do you mean in the sense that their histories would be roughly\ncompatible? I'm not sure there could be any guarantee of that.\n\nu+16b9\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3C03DAF9-3FA1-4AEC-A29C-581026B3859D@Comcast.net>", "from": { "name": "Steven Bowen", "address": "mcquaryq at comcast.net" }, "date": "2010-07-26T18:42:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<7894ba0b596bbfc6fea9d406d1d45b5c.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 26, 2010, at 12:05 PM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nThe Mormons have knowledge." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving \nin my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they \nhave no 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is \nan amalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance \namong the early membership. That the church continues to exist and \nspread this nonsense is a measure of human fatuity.\n\nSteve" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1E9E1584-2F45-4194-97FF-5ED7B299F634@me.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Meyers", "address": "jeffmeyers at me.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T19:29:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<3C03DAF9-3FA1-4AEC-A29C-581026B3859D@Comcast.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 26, 2010, at 1:42 PM, Steven Bowen wrote:\nOn Jul 26, 2010, at 12:05 PM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving in my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have no 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an amalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among the early membership. That the church continues to exist and spread this nonsense is a measure of human fatuity." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well said.\n\nJJM" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5470c40f12a8d3fcd03ef4aee365debb.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T20:43:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<1E9E1584-2F45-4194-97FF-5ED7B299F634@me.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You're allowed to disagree.\n\nDoesn't change anhything.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 26, 2010, at 1:42 PM, Steven Bowen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Jul 26, 2010, at 12:05 PM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving in\nmy adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have no\n'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an\namalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among the\nearly membership. That the church continues to exist and spread this\nnonsense is a measure of human fatuity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well said.\n\nJJM\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C4DF8E0.9000507@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T21:06:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DB0E2.6070801@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/26/2010 10:59 AM, James Wynn wrote:\nhttp://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727703.000-every-black-hole-may-hold-a-hidden-universe.html\n\n\nA theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists -- within\na black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of either\nthe Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for each.\nAlso, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing\nblack holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda gnostic." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Quabbalistic as well. But if you come up with a sufficiently \nself-consistent abstraction, it will probably resemble some model sooner \nor later.\n\nThis can also be taken as confirmation of the backward-in-time idea echo \nmentioned by Dr Talos, and by the aliens in CHILDHOOD'S END, but that \ntakes away from the cleverness of the rabbis involved." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5c83096c3b151c1d83b33a9d777ce107.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T21:14:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4DF8E0.9000507@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The collapse of a black hole beyond the event horizon is a Big Bang inside.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/26/2010 10:59 AM, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727703.000-every-black-hole-may-hold-a-hidden-universe.html\n\n\nA theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists -- within\na black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of either\nthe Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for each.\nAlso, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing\nblack holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda\ngnostic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Quabbalistic as well. But if you come up with a sufficiently\nself-consistent abstraction, it will probably resemble some model sooner\nor later.\n\nThis can also be taken as confirmation of the backward-in-time idea echo\nmentioned by Dr Talos, and by the aliens in CHILDHOOD'S END, but that\ntakes away from the cleverness of the rabbis involved.\n\n--\nJeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C4E0B64.7040602@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T22:25:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<1E9E1584-2F45-4194-97FF-5ED7B299F634@me.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving in my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have no 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an amalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among the early membership. That the church continues to exist and spread this nonsense is a measure of human fatuity.\n " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very \ninsightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything \npersonally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All of \nthose I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing Americans, \nand a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's good enough for me.\n\nu+16b9" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T22:51:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4E0B64.7040602@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Some people, their religion is just words.\n\nSome people believe their religions.\n\nEvery mormon I've met believed theirs.\n\nThose who don't have the decency to leave the church, or identify as jack\nmormon.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving\nin my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have\nno 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an\namalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among the\nearly membership. That the church continues to exist and spread this\nnonsense is a measure of human fatuity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very\ninsightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything\npersonally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All of\nthose I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing Americans,\nand a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's good enough for\nme.\n\nu+16b9\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1dbbc166f7c4b3ab29b340fa3f7b33f6.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T22:52:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've met lots and lots of mormons.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Some people, their religion is just words.\n\nSome people believe their religions.\n\nEvery mormon I've met believed theirs.\n\nThose who don't have the decency to leave the church, or identify as jack\nmormon.\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving\nin my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have\nno 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an\namalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among\nthe\nearly membership. That the church continues to exist and spread this\nnonsense is a measure of human fatuity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very\ninsightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything\npersonally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All of\nthose I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing Americans,\nand a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's good enough for\nme.\n\nu+16b9\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C4E1309.5000607@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-07-26T22:58:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mormons inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4E0B64.7040602@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/26/2010 5:25 PM, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving\nin my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they\nhave no 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an\namalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among\nthe early membership. That the church continues to exist and spread\nthis nonsense is a measure of human fatuity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very\ninsightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything\npersonally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All of\nthose I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing Americans,\nand a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's good enough for\nme." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wonder if Steven Bowen would care to comment on the individual \ncharacter of Mormons still with the LDS Church, and how this might \nreflect on the themes of of false religions cultivating genuine virtues \nin Wolfe. For instance, the obviously self-promoting missionary traditon \nof the LDS also encourages young people in the church to not just become \neducated about other parts of the world but also to become familiar with \nthem first hand and perform charitable acts there along with the rest of \nthe mission. How much of this is borne out in practice?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<777f0e3c75d4217bcb4fe30b2c9ccf9f.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-07-26T23:01:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mormons inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4E1309.5000607@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "How many Tongans are mormon?\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 7/26/2010 5:25 PM, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "The Mormons have knowledge." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I'm sorry, but I have to deny this. I was brought up Mormon, leaving\nin my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they\nhave no 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an\namalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among\nthe early membership. That the church continues to exist and spread\nthis nonsense is a measure of human fatuity." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very\ninsightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything\npersonally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All of\nthose I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing Americans,\nand a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's good enough for\nme." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wonder if Steven Bowen would care to comment on the individual\ncharacter of Mormons still with the LDS Church, and how this might\nreflect on the themes of of false religions cultivating genuine virtues\nin Wolfe. For instance, the obviously self-promoting missionary traditon\nof the LDS also encourages young people in the church to not just become\neducated about other parts of the world but also to become familiar with\nthem first hand and perform charitable acts there along with the rest of\nthe mission. How much of this is borne out in practice?\n\n--\nJeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<7B7DB415-90E4-40B3-B82E-EB5AA672BEDB@Comcast.net>", "from": { "name": "Steven Bowen", "address": "mcquaryq at comcast.net" }, "date": "2010-07-29T05:11:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4E0B64.7040602@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 26, 2010, at 6:25 PM, James Wynn wrote:\nWell, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very \ninsightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything \npersonally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All \nof those I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing \nAmericans, and a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's \ngood enough for me." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I'm glad to see that distinction made - certainly didn't want \nto imply that I thought the LDS reader deficient in some manner \nrelating to their ability to contribute here. I only wanted to \nchallenge the idea that they have some real esoteric knowledge of the \nultimate nature of reality. It's my contention they don't, and I'm \nskeptical of other claims to 'secret knowledge'. I don't have a \nspecial condemnation of the Mormons except for the fact that my \nfather's family were pushcart pioneers.\n\nMy yap is shut.\n\nSteve" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Steven Bowen", "address": "mcquaryq at comcast.net" }, "date": "2010-07-29T05:24:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mormons inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<4C4E1309.5000607@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 26, 2010, at 6:58 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nI wonder if Steven Bowen would care to comment on the individual \ncharacter of Mormons still with the LDS Church, and how this might \nreflect on the themes of of false religions cultivating genuine \nvirtues in Wolfe. For instance, the obviously self-promoting \nmissionary traditon of the LDS also encourages young people in the \nchurch to not just become educated about other parts of the world \nbut also to become familiar with them first hand and perform \ncharitable acts there along with the rest of the mission. How much \nof this is borne out in practice?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Freedom of religion has had some strange expressions in America. The \nproblem, insofar as I'm interested, with the Mormons, is that their \nclaims are made contrary to what reliable objective records show to \nbe the case - the facts under contention occurred mere decades ago. \nSmith had a long history of charlatanism reaching back into his early \nadolescence. Is this the man who you'd trust with a story of golden \nplates? In a word, no.\n\nSteve--ya ya, unreliable narrators and all that." } ] }, { "message_id": "<672e180d36871f72034131386a437611.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-08-01T06:32:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<7B7DB415-90E4-40B3-B82E-EB5AA672BEDB@Comcast.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Joe Smith was a freemason and a professional treasure seer before he\nbecame a prophet.\n\nMuch esoteric stuff is incorporated into mormonism.\n\nAnyone else here into the higher theology?\n\n." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 26, 2010, at 6:25 PM, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very\ninsightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything\npersonally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All\nof those I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing\nAmericans, and a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's\ngood enough for me." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Well, I'm glad to see that distinction made - certainly didn't want\nto imply that I thought the LDS reader deficient in some manner\nrelating to their ability to contribute here. I only wanted to\nchallenge the idea that they have some real esoteric knowledge of the\nultimate nature of reality. It's my contention they don't, and I'm\nskeptical of other claims to 'secret knowledge'. I don't have a\nspecial condemnation of the Mormons except for the fact that my\nfather's family were pushcart pioneers.\n\nMy yap is shut.\n\nSteve\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5CDB8EA5-DF5B-45D2-BCAF-2E71D5809C94@Comcast.net>", "from": { "name": "Steven Bowen", "address": "mcquaryq at comcast.net" }, "date": "2010-08-03T17:22:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<672e180d36871f72034131386a437611.squirrel@brunians.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 1, 2010, at 2:32 AM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\nJoe Smith was a freemason and a professional treasure seer before he\nbecame a prophet." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's pretty rich - professional treasure seer. Is there any record \nof him finding any treasure? Or did he just take money for his \n'services'? One of the scams involved telling the client that the \ntreasure was sinking into the earth as the hole was dug towards it. \nOh, it's there all right - just keep pluggin' along. Chase it to the \nbowels of the earth or until your money or gumption runs out. But \nit's there, I assure you.\n\nSteve" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Weber", "address": "palaeologos at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-08-03T17:24:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<5CDB8EA5-DF5B-45D2-BCAF-2E71D5809C94@Comcast.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Steven Bowen wrote:\n\nOn Aug 1, 2010, at 2:32 AM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:\n\nJoe Smith was a freemason and a professional treasure seer before he\n\nbecame a prophet.\n\n\nThat's pretty rich - professional treasure seer. Is there any record of\nhim finding any treasure? Or did he just take money for his 'services'? One\nof the scams involved telling the client that the treasure was sinking into\nthe earth as the hole was dug towards it. Oh, it's there all right - just\nkeep pluggin' along. Chase it to the bowels of the earth or until your\nmoney or gumption runs out. But it's there, I assure you.\n\nSteve\n\n\n_______________________________________________" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, he *says* he found some gold tablets. But then, for some reason, he\ncouldn't find them. Oops." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Matt +\n\nDark Care sits enthroned behind the Knight.\n Horace [Quintus Horatius Flaccus] (65-8 B.C.), Odes, bk. III [23 B.C.],\node i, l. 40" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C589B96.9040703@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-08-03T22:43:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I believe it. Such scams are as American as apple pie." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Matthew Weber wrote:\n\n\nOn Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Steven Bowen > wrote:\n\n\n On Aug 1, 2010, at 2:32 AM, brunians at brunians.org\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " Joe Smith was a freemason and a professional treasure seer before he\n\n became a prophet." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " That's pretty rich - professional treasure seer. Is there any\n record of him finding any treasure? Or did he just take money for\n his 'services'? One of the scams involved telling the client that\n the treasure was sinking into the earth as the hole was dug\n towards it. Oh, it's there all right - just keep pluggin' along.\n Chase it to the bowels of the earth or until your money or\n gumption runs out. But it's there, I assure you. \n\n Steve\n\n\n _______________________________________________\n\n \nWell, he /says/ he found some gold tablets. But then, for some \nreason, he couldn't find them. Oops.\n\n\n-- \nMatt +\n\nDark Care sits enthroned behind the Knight.\n Horace [Quintus Horatius Flaccus] (65-8 B.C.), Odes, bk. III [23 \nB.C.], ode i, l. 40\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<42885f90af2addf621ff8ec74a08a7f8.squirrel@brunians.org>", "from": { "name": "brunians at brunians.org", "address": "brunians at brunians.org" }, "date": "2010-08-04T03:18:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Universes inside a black hole", "in_reply_to": "<5CDB8EA5-DF5B-45D2-BCAF-2E71D5809C94@Comcast.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 1, 2010, at 2:32 AM, brunians at brunians.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Joe Smith was a freemason and a professional treasure seer before he\nbecame a prophet." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That's pretty rich - professional treasure seer. Is there any record\nof him finding any treasure?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes.\n\nPeople do bury treasure.\n\n." } ] } ] }