Subject: (urth) Universes inside a black hole

From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 15:59:30 +0000

A theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists --  
within a black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of 
either the Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for 
each. Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- 
containing black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's 
kinda gnostic.

u+16b9

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From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:02:01 +0000

On Mon, Jul 26, 2010 at 8:59 AM, James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com> wrote:
> A theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists -- ?within a
> black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of either the
> Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for each. Also, if you
> think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing black holes that
> presumably have their own universes, it's kinda gnostic.

...or even Mormon.

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:03:07 +0000

Each black hole contains a World.

It is not known if these are identical with the parallel Worlds.

Probably.

.

> http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727703.000-every-black-hole-may-hold-a-hidden-universe.html
>
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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:03:30 +0000

Universe is all of the Worlds.

.

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:05:01 +0000

The Mormons have knowledge.

The problem is most people don't actually believe their religion.

What is believe?

.

>> ?within a

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From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:40:48 +0000

>> Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda gnostic.
>>      
> ...or even Mormon

Well, as I understand it, Mormon's believe in succession of gods who 
preside over their own planets and humanity. But not a succession of 
universes -- comparable to gnostic aeons.

u+16b9

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From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:49:39 +0000

> Each black hole contains a World. It is not known if these are identical with the parallel Worlds. Probably.
>    

Do you mean in the sense that their histories would be roughly 
compatible? I'm not sure there could be any guarantee of that.

u+16b9

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 16:59:59 +0000

You don't understand it.

You think this is all theoretical or something.

You don't seem to actually believe any of it.

.

>
>>> Also, if you think of our universe --inside a black hole-- containing
>>> black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda
>>> gnostic.
>>>
>> ...or even Mormon
>

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:00:36 +0000

What is a false distinction, James Wynn?

.

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 17:01:26 +0000

Only the parallel Worlds close to this one resemble this one.

Let go of your penis.

.

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From: Steven Bowen <mcquaryq at comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 18:42:58 +0000

> The Mormons have knowledge.

I'm sorry, but I have to deny this.  I was brought up Mormon, leaving  
in my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they  
have no 'knowledge' in the sense intended.  Their entire history is  
an amalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance  
among the early membership.  That the church continues to exist and  
spread this nonsense is a measure of human fatuity.

Steve

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From: Jeff Meyers <jeffmeyers at me.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 19:29:01 +0000

On Jul 26, 2010, at 1:42 PM, Steven Bowen wrote:

> I'm sorry, but I have to deny this.  I was brought up Mormon, leaving in my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have no 'knowledge' in the sense intended.  Their entire history is an amalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among the early membership.  That the church continues to exist and spread this nonsense is a measure of human fatuity.

Well said.

JJM

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 20:43:47 +0000

You're allowed to disagree.

Doesn't change anhything.

.

>> I'm sorry, but I have to deny this.  I was brought up Mormon, leaving in
>> my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have no
>> 'knowledge' in the sense intended.  Their entire history is an
>> amalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among the
>> early membership.  That the church continues to exist and spread this
>> nonsense is a measure of human fatuity.
>
> Well said.
>
> JJM
>

---

From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:06:40 +0000

On 7/26/2010 10:59 AM, James Wynn wrote:
> A theory that the Big Bang occurred -- and our universe exists -- within
> a black hole. I don't think it maps precisely to the cosmology of either
> the Sun Cycle or the Wizard Knight, but it has resonances for each.
> black holes that presumably have their own universes, it's kinda gnostic.

Quabbalistic as well. But if you come up with a sufficiently 
self-consistent abstraction, it will probably resemble some model sooner 
or later.

This can also be taken as confirmation of the backward-in-time idea echo 
mentioned by Dr Talos, and by the aliens in CHILDHOOD'S END, but that 
takes away from the cleverness of the rabbis involved.

-- 
Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com
IEEE Student Chapter Blog at
< http://ieeetamut.org >

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:14:58 +0000

The collapse of a black hole beyond the event horizon is a Big Bang inside.

.

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From: James Wynn <crushtv at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:25:40 +0000

>> I'm sorry, but I have to deny this.  I was brought up Mormon, leaving in my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have no 'knowledge' in the sense intended.  Their entire his…

Well, for all I know, there are Mormons on the list who have very 
insightful knowledge about Wolfe's writings. So, if I had anything 
personally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All of 
those I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing Americans, 
and a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's good enough for me.

u+16b9

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:51:10 +0000

Some people, their religion is just words.

Some people believe their religions.

Every mormon I've met believed theirs.

Those who don't have the decency to leave the church, or identify as jack
mormon.

.

>>> in my adolescence, and I can assure the rest of us here that they have
>>> no 'knowledge' in the sense intended.  Their entire history is an

---

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:52:10 +0000

I've met lots and lots of mormons.

.

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From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:58:17 +0000

On 7/26/2010 5:25 PM, James Wynn wrote:
>>> have no 'knowledge' in the sense intended. Their entire history is an
>>> amalgamation of lies passed down in the security of ignorance among
>>> the early membership. That the church continues to exist and spread
>>> this nonsense is a measure of human fatuity.
>

I wonder if Steven Bowen would care to comment on the individual 
character of Mormons still with the LDS Church, and how this might 
reflect on the themes of of false religions cultivating genuine virtues 
in Wolfe. For instance, the obviously self-promoting missionary traditon 
of the LDS also encourages young people in the church to not just become 
educated about other parts of the world but also to become familiar with 
them first hand and perform charitable acts there along with the rest of 
the mission. How much of this is borne out in practice?

---

From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 23:01:43 +0000

How many Tongans are mormon?

.

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From: Steven Bowen <mcquaryq at comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:11:59 +0000

On Jul 26, 2010, at 6:25 PM, James Wynn wrote:

> personally bad to say about their beliefs, I'll keep it quiet. All  
> of those I've met (which is hardly expansive) were fine effing  
> Americans, and a couple were Wolfe fans, and 99% of the time that's  
> good enough for me.

Well, I'm glad to see that distinction made - certainly didn't want  
to imply that I thought the LDS reader deficient in some manner  
relating to their ability to contribute here.  I only wanted to  
challenge the idea that they have some real esoteric knowledge of the  
ultimate nature of reality.  It's my contention they don't, and I'm  
skeptical of other claims to 'secret knowledge'.  I don't have a  
special condemnation of the Mormons except for the fact that my  
father's family were pushcart pioneers.

My yap is shut.

Steve

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From: Steven Bowen <mcquaryq at comcast.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 05:24:05 +0000

On Jul 26, 2010, at 6:58 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:

> reflect on the themes of of false religions cultivating genuine  
> virtues in Wolfe. For instance, the obviously self-promoting  
> missionary traditon of the LDS also encourages young people in the  
> church to not just become educated about other parts of the world  
> but also to become familiar with them first hand and perform  
> charitable acts there along with the rest of the mission. How much  
> of this is borne out in practice?

Freedom of religion has had some strange expressions in America.  The  
problem, insofar as I'm interested, with the Mormons, is that their  
claims are made contrary to what reliable objective records show to  
be the case - the facts under contention occurred mere decades ago.   
Smith had a long history of charlatanism reaching back into his early  
adolescence.  Is this the man who you'd trust with a story of golden  
plates?  In a word, no.

Steve--ya ya, unreliable narrators and all that.

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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2010 06:32:48 +0000

Joe Smith was a freemason and a professional treasure seer before he
became a prophet.

Much esoteric stuff is incorporated into mormonism.

Anyone else here into the higher theology?

.

---

From: Steven Bowen <mcquaryq at comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:22:32 +0000

> Joe Smith was a freemason and a professional treasure seer before he

That's pretty rich - professional treasure seer.  Is there any record  
of him finding any treasure? Or did he just take money for his  
'services'?  One of the scams involved telling the client that the  
treasure was sinking into the earth as the hole was dug towards it.   
Oh, it's there all right - just keep pluggin' along.  Chase it to the  
bowels of the earth or until your money or gumption runs out.  But  
it's there, I assure you.

Steve

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From: Matthew Weber <palaeologos at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 17:24:17 +0000

On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Steven Bowen <McQuaryq at comcast.net> wrote:

> That's pretty rich - professional treasure seer.  Is there any record of
> him finding any treasure? Or did he just take money for his 'services'?  One
> of the scams involved telling the client that the treasure was sinking into
> the earth as the hole was dug towards it.  Oh, it's there all right - just
> keep pluggin' along.  Chase it to the bowels of the earth or until your
> money or gumption runs out.  But it's there, I assure you.
>
> Steve
>
>
Well, he *says* he found some gold tablets.  But then, for some reason, he
couldn't find them.  Oops.

-- 
Matt +

Dark Care sits enthroned behind the Knight.
    Horace [Quintus Horatius Flaccus] (65-8 B.C.), Odes, bk. III [23 B.C.],
ode i, l. 40
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From: David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2010 22:43:34 +0000

I believe it. Such scams are as American as apple pie.

Matthew Weber wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Steven Bowen <McQuaryq at comcast.net 
> <mailto:McQuaryq at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>
>     On Aug 1, 2010, at 2:32 AM, brunians at brunians.org
>     <mailto:brunians at brunians.org> wrote:
>
>     That's pretty rich - professional treasure seer.  Is there any
>     record of him finding any treasure? Or did he just take money for
>     his 'services'?  One of the scams involved telling the client that
>     the treasure was sinking into the earth as the hole was dug
>     towards it.  Oh, it's there all right - just keep pluggin' along.
>      Chase it to the bowels of the earth or until your money or
>     gumption runs out.  But it's there, I assure you.  
>
>     Steve
>
>
> Well, he /says/ he found some gold tablets.  But then, for some 
> reason, he couldn't find them.  Oops.
>
>
> -- 
> Matt +
>
>     Horace [Quintus Horatius Flaccus] (65-8 B.C.), Odes, bk. III [23 
> B.C.], ode i, l. 40
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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From: brunians at brunians.org <brunians at brunians.org>
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2010 03:18:13 +0000

> of him finding any treasure?

Yes.

People do bury treasure.

.