{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5683", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5683, "subject": "Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "messages": 15, "voices": 6, "first": "2010-08-02T15:14:36+00:00", "last": "2010-08-05T07:31:38+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ryan Dunn", "address": "ryan at liftingfaces.com" }, "date": "2010-08-02T15:14:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Courtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking...\n\n\"Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?\"\n\nI'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a leader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent family to creative directing teams of people as a professional and everywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story, and I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is above my pay grade.\n\nSo I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good balance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated respect from those around and beneath you.\n\n...ryan" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jack Smith", "address": "jack.smith.1946 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-08-02T18:32:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think I always identify with the main character of a novel, especially if\nthe main character is also the narrator. But identifying with Severian is\ntoo obvious and boring. So I'll answer a slightly different question:\n \"Which character would you like to be, if you could choose to live on\nUrth?\"\n\nI would want to be Dr. Talos. He gets to exercise his creativity by writing\nand staging his play. He lives on his own terms and by his own wits.\n Baldanders may be his master, but Talos is a valuable expert, not a lackey.\n On the other hand, he's not really human...\n\nBest wishes,\nJack" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote:\nCourtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking...\n\n\"Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?\"\n\nI'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a\nleader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent\nfamily to creative directing teams of people as a professional and\neverywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story,\nand I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is\nabove my pay grade.\n\nSo I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good\nbalance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated\nrespect from those around and beneath you.\n\n...ryan\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Paul B", "address": "pb.stuff at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-08-02T19:14:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As for choosing a role, Autarch is a pretty obviously pleasant one it\nseems. Especially if one is more of a \"caretaker\" Autarch rather than one\nwho goes to trial at Yesod. A \"self-ruler\", as it were, with pretty much\nabsolute freedom and future-tech luxury, with at worst some potential\nassassins to contend with.\nWhich actually raises a curious point: is it purely by chance that no\nAutarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain?\nIt would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to\nexplain the rather unexpected task his killer faces.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Jack Smith wrote:\nI think I always identify with the main character of a novel, especially if\nthe main character is also the narrator. But identifying with Severian is\ntoo obvious and boring. So I'll answer a slightly different question:\n \"Which character would you like to be, if you could choose to live on\nUrth?\"\n\nI would want to be Dr. Talos. He gets to exercise his creativity by\nwriting and staging his play. He lives on his own terms and by his own\nwits. Baldanders may be his master, but Talos is a valuable expert, not a\nlackey. On the other hand, he's not really human...\n\nBest wishes,\nJack\n\n\n\nOn Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Courtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking...\n\n\"Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?\"\n\nI'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a\nleader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent\nfamily to creative directing teams of people as a professional and\neverywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story,\nand I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is\nabove my pay grade.\n\nSo I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good\nbalance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated\nrespect from those around and beneath you.\n\n...ryan\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<0DDC7B02-3BBA-45D5-ACC0-509CC8384AC5@liftingfaces.com>", "from": { "name": "Ryan Dunn", "address": "ryan at liftingfaces.com" }, "date": "2010-08-02T19:28:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 2, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Paul B wrote:\nis it purely by chance that no Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I wonder if the Autarchs have a contingency plan. A USB drive? A sieve and a latrine? Or maybe it's all foreordained to work just so. That would be convenient.\n\nAnother question. The Vodalani, after Vodalus, are they the Agiates?\n\nAnother question... do you think anyone identifies with Hethor?\n\n...ryan" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4c68f70d473740f2ddbd13888a70241b.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-08-02T19:31:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Which actually raises a curious point: is it purely by chance that no\nAutarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain?\nIt would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch\nto\nexplain the rather unexpected task his killer faces." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've been pondering that hazard of succession. If Vodalus can keep\nThecla's body fresh for days in an ice cave, and the mandragora remains\neven slightly animated after centuries unattended, Father Inire can\nprobably preserve some leftover brains for just such an occasion.\n\nMaybe that's what became of Sulpicius - he is detained somewhere out of\nsight for an extended period, and is presumed dead by Inire, who thaws out\none of the unconsumed portion of Sulpicius-minus-1's brain and initiates\nAutarch Sulpicius-plus-1. Meanwhile, just in case his time-bending cousins\ndid pick him up, he advises Sulpicius-plus-1 to let stand his\ncontingencies." } ] }, { "message_id": "<02E7EE8D-ECAA-4341-AA21-31F9513BFE06@liftingfaces.com>", "from": { "name": "Ryan Dunn", "address": "ryan at liftingfaces.com" }, "date": "2010-08-02T19:36:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "<4c68f70d473740f2ddbd13888a70241b.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 2, 2010, at 3:31 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nMaybe that's what became of Sulpicius - he is detained somewhere out of\nsight for an extended period, and is presumed dead by Inire, who thaws out\none of the unconsumed portion of Sulpicius-minus-1's brain and initiates\nAutarch Sulpicius-plus-1. Meanwhile, just in case his time-bending cousins\ndid pick him up, he advises Sulpicius-plus-1 to let stand his\ncontingencies." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That DOES play to Severian's question to Ultan about how much one would have to eat to obtain all of another one's memories. If you eat the left, and I eat the right, do we both have 100% of the thing of which we ate, etc.\n\n...ryan" } ] }, { "message_id": "<101623.22538.qm@web84106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "DAVID STOCKHOFF", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-08-02T20:16:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Possibly, the lure of gaining all that information---as well as the access codes that make one the autarch---ensure that anyone who murders the incumbent (if he knows about it) would succeed him even if he had no intent to do so, thus preserving the succession. A hired assassin could become autarch instead of his employer.\n\nThis could also explain a huge number of autarchs who ruled for only weeks or months.\n\n--- On Mon, 8/2/10, Paul B wrote:\n\nFrom: Paul B \nSubject: Re: (urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Monday, August 2, 2010, 3:14 PM\n\nAs for choosing a role, Autarch is a pretty obviously pleasant one it seems. Especially if one is more of a \"caretaker\" Autarch rather than one who goes to trial at Yesod. A \"self-ruler\", as it were, with pretty much absolute freedom and future-tech luxury, with at worst some potential assassins to contend with.\n\nWhich actually raises a curious point: is it purely by chance that no Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces.\n\n\nPaul\n\nOn Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Jack Smith wrote:\n\nI think I always identify with the main character of a novel, especially if the main character is also the narrator. — But identifying with Severian is too obvious and boring. — So I'll answer a slightly different question: ?\"Which character would you like to be, if you could choose to live on Urth?\"\n\n\nI would want to be Dr. Talos. ?He gets to exercise his creativity by writing and staging his play. ?He lives on his own terms and by his own wits. ?Baldanders may be his master, but Talos is a valuable expert, not a lackey. — On the other hand, he's not really human...\n\n\nBest wishes,Jack\n\n\nOn Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote:\n\n\nCourtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking...\n\n\n\n\"Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?\"\n\n\n\nI'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a leader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent family to creative directing teams of people as a professional and everywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story, and I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is above my pay grade.\n\n\n\n\n\nSo I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good balance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated respect from those around and beneath you.\n\n\n\n...ryan\n\n\nUrth Mailing List\n\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\n\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Best wishes,\nJack\n\n\n\n\nUrth Mailing List\n\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\n\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net\n\n\n\n-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" } ] }, { "message_id": "<80a2bbca1fd590cb06a6e67da1dd9121.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-08-02T21:37:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "<101623.22538.qm@web84106.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Possibly, the lure of gaining all that information---as well as the access\ncodes that make one the autarch---ensure that anyone who murders the\nincumbent (if he knows about it) would succeed him even if he had no\nintent to do so, thus preserving the succession. A hired assassin could\nbecome autarch instead of his employer." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Where do the children and farmwives come in?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C5769FE.1010100@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-08-03T00:59:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "<80a2bbca1fd590cb06a6e67da1dd9121.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's a damn good question. You could pass on the codes without the \nalzabo, but then what happens to your memories?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:\nPossibly, the lure of gaining all that information---as well as the access\ncodes that make one the autarch---ensure that anyone who murders the\nincumbent (if he knows about it) would succeed him even if he had no\nintent to do so, thus preserving the succession. A hired assassin could\nbecome autarch instead of his employer.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Where do the children and farmwives come in?\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C576A9D.20402@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-08-03T01:02:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "<02E7EE8D-ECAA-4341-AA21-31F9513BFE06@liftingfaces.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " From what we now know of how memories are stored, yes---we both have \n100%. The real question is---how little?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ryan Dunn wrote:\nOn Aug 2, 2010, at 3:31 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\n\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Maybe that's what became of Sulpicius - he is detained somewhere out of\nsight for an extended period, and is presumed dead by Inire, who thaws out\none of the unconsumed portion of Sulpicius-minus-1's brain and initiates\nAutarch Sulpicius-plus-1. Meanwhile, just in case his time-bending cousins\ndid pick him up, he advises Sulpicius-plus-1 to let stand his\ncontingencies.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That DOES play to Severian's question to Ultan about how much one would have to eat to obtain all of another one's memories. If you eat the left, and I eat the right, do we both have 100% of the thing of which we ate, etc.\n\n...ryan\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C5783A6.90800@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-08-03T02:49:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Succession Memories", "in_reply_to": "<4C5769FE.1010100@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 8/2/2010 7:59 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nThat's a damn good question. You could pass on the codes without the\nalzabo, but then what happens to your memories?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Another possibility is that the Autarchs add memories of freshly dead \nCommonwealthers of some merit or useful perspective. As memories fade \nwith succession, they may feel the need to add another of the now \ninaccessible kind, explaining the multiple children and farmwives.\n\nThis also explains why Severian is the final Autarch in another way: his \neidetic memory revives the fading imprints so that he has sufficient \nawareness of them that all of them serve him in a significant way at the \ntrial, while someone attempting to add all the memories directly to \nhimself would be driven mad or incapacitated by the myriad, vivid \nmemory-sets all second hand fresh." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C580324.3040306@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-08-03T11:53:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Succession Memories", "in_reply_to": "<4C5783A6.90800@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That works. Even if it was not a routine practice, some autarchs may \nhave done that for various reasons." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:\nOn 8/2/2010 7:59 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "That's a damn good question. You could pass on the codes without the\nalzabo, but then what happens to your memories?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Another possibility is that the Autarchs add memories of freshly dead \nCommonwealthers of some merit or useful perspective. As memories fade \nwith succession, they may feel the need to add another of the now \ninaccessible kind, explaining the multiple children and farmwives.\n\nThis also explains why Severian is the final Autarch in another way: \nhis eidetic memory revives the fading imprints so that he has \nsufficient awareness of them that all of them serve him in a \nsignificant way at the trial, while someone attempting to add all the \nmemories directly to himself would be driven mad or incapacitated by \nthe myriad, vivid memory-sets all second hand fresh." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C58A7BE.1020108@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-08-03T23:35:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Succession Memories", "in_reply_to": "<4C580324.3040306@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 8/3/2010 6:53 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nThat works. Even if it was not a routine practice, some autarchs may\nhave done that for various reasons." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...and it explains some of Inire's interest in young people, mwah-hahaha!" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nIEEE Student Chapter Blog at\n< http://ieeetamut.org >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C58C0DC.2060404@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-08-04T01:22:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Succession Memories", "in_reply_to": "<4C58A7BE.1020108@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That make a lot of sense! He'd naturally be interested in smart, \nfearless children who might make good autarch or \nautarch-brain-supplement material, perhaps later in their lives." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson wrote:\nOn 8/3/2010 6:53 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "That works. Even if it was not a routine practice, some autarchs may\nhave done that for various reasons." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "...and it explains some of Inire's interest in young people, mwah-hahaha!" } ] }, { "message_id": "<471296.89261.qm@web58201.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2010-08-05T07:31:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most?", "in_reply_to": "<4C576A9D.20402@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well besides identifying with severian there is a part of me that definitely identifies with hethor. I want to be the estrapade that grinds their joints at times. \n\nI have objectified and idolized one or two beautiful women like hethor idolizes his paracoita, and never failed to be disappointed. I am a small and slender fellow myself, and lord knows I have wanted revenge oft enough to taste it for the failure of the world to replace the objects of perfect beauty forever fled beyond my grasp.\nMarc" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon Aug 2nd, 2010 12:28 PM PDT Ryan Dunn wrote:\n\nOn Aug 2, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Paul B wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "is it purely by chance that no Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces.\n\nPaul" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wonder if the Autarchs have a contingency plan. A USB drive? A sieve and a latrine? Or maybe it's all foreordained to work just so. That would be convenient.\n\nAnother question. The Vodalani, after Vodalus, are they the Agiates?\n\nAnother question... do you think anyone identifies with Hethor?\n\n...ryan\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }