# Which character from BotNS do you identify with most? *The Urth list — 15 messages, 6 voices, 02 Aug 2010* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Ryan Dunn *02 Aug 2010, 15:14* Courtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking... "Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?" I'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a leader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent family to creative directing teams of people as a professional and everywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story, and I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is above my pay grade. So I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good balance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated respect from those around and beneath you. ...ryan --- ### Jack Smith *02 Aug 2010, 18:32 · in reply to Ryan Dunn* I think I always identify with the main character of a novel, especially if the main character is also the narrator. But identifying with Severian is too obvious and boring. So I'll answer a slightly different question: "Which character would you like to be, if you could choose to live on Urth?" I would want to be Dr. Talos. He gets to exercise his creativity by writing and staging his play. He lives on his own terms and by his own wits. Baldanders may be his master, but Talos is a valuable expert, not a lackey. On the other hand, he's not really human... Best wishes, Jack > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote: > Courtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking... > > "Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?" > > I'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a > leader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent > family to creative directing teams of people as a professional and > everywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story, > and I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is > above my pay grade. > > So I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good > balance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated > respect from those around and beneath you. > > ...ryan > _______________________________________________ --- ### Paul B *02 Aug 2010, 19:14 · in reply to Jack Smith* As for choosing a role, Autarch is a pretty obviously pleasant one it seems. Especially if one is more of a "caretaker" Autarch rather than one who goes to trial at Yesod. A "self-ruler", as it were, with pretty much absolute freedom and future-tech luxury, with at worst some potential assassins to contend with. Which actually raises a curious point: is it purely by chance that no Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces. Paul > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Jack Smith wrote: > I think I always identify with the main character of a novel, especially if > the main character is also the narrator. But identifying with Severian is > too obvious and boring. So I'll answer a slightly different question: > "Which character would you like to be, if you could choose to live on > Urth?" > > I would want to be Dr. Talos. He gets to exercise his creativity by > writing and staging his play. He lives on his own terms and by his own > wits. Baldanders may be his master, but Talos is a valuable expert, not a > lackey. On the other hand, he's not really human... > > Best wishes, > Jack > > > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote: >> Courtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking... >> >> "Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?" >> >> I'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a >> leader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent >> family to creative directing teams of people as a professional and >> everywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story, >> and I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is >> above my pay grade. >> >> So I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good >> balance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated >> respect from those around and beneath you. >> >> ...ryan >> _______________________________________________ --- ### Ryan Dunn *02 Aug 2010, 19:28 · in reply to Paul B* > On Aug 2, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Paul B wrote: > is it purely by chance that no Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces. > > Paul I wonder if the Autarchs have a contingency plan. A USB drive? A sieve and a latrine? Or maybe it's all foreordained to work just so. That would be convenient. Another question. The Vodalani, after Vodalus, are they the Agiates? Another question... do you think anyone identifies with Hethor? ...ryan --- ### Jeff Wilson *02 Aug 2010, 19:31 · in reply to Paul B* > Which actually raises a curious point: is it purely by chance that no > Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? > It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch > to > explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces. I've been pondering that hazard of succession. If Vodalus can keep Thecla's body fresh for days in an ice cave, and the mandragora remains even slightly animated after centuries unattended, Father Inire can probably preserve some leftover brains for just such an occasion. Maybe that's what became of Sulpicius - he is detained somewhere out of sight for an extended period, and is presumed dead by Inire, who thaws out one of the unconsumed portion of Sulpicius-minus-1's brain and initiates Autarch Sulpicius-plus-1. Meanwhile, just in case his time-bending cousins did pick him up, he advises Sulpicius-plus-1 to let stand his contingencies. --- ### Ryan Dunn *02 Aug 2010, 19:36 · in reply to Jeff Wilson* > On Aug 2, 2010, at 3:31 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: > Maybe that's what became of Sulpicius - he is detained somewhere out of > sight for an extended period, and is presumed dead by Inire, who thaws out > one of the unconsumed portion of Sulpicius-minus-1's brain and initiates > Autarch Sulpicius-plus-1. Meanwhile, just in case his time-bending cousins > did pick him up, he advises Sulpicius-plus-1 to let stand his > contingencies. That DOES play to Severian's question to Ultan about how much one would have to eat to obtain all of another one's memories. If you eat the left, and I eat the right, do we both have 100% of the thing of which we ate, etc. ...ryan --- ### DAVID STOCKHOFF *02 Aug 2010, 20:16 · in reply to Paul B* Possibly, the lure of gaining all that information---as well as the access codes that make one the autarch---ensure that anyone who murders the incumbent (if he knows about it) would succeed him even if he had no intent to do so, thus preserving the succession. A hired assassin could become autarch instead of his employer. This could also explain a huge number of autarchs who ruled for only weeks or months. --- On Mon, 8/2/10, Paul B wrote: From: Paul B Subject: Re: (urth) Which character from BotNS do you identify with most? To: "The Urth Mailing List" Date: Monday, August 2, 2010, 3:14 PM As for choosing a role, Autarch is a pretty obviously pleasant one it seems. Especially if one is more of a "caretaker" Autarch rather than one who goes to trial at Yesod. A "self-ruler", as it were, with pretty much absolute freedom and future-tech luxury, with at worst some potential assassins to contend with. Which actually raises a curious point: is it purely by chance that no Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces. Paul On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 2:32 PM, Jack Smith wrote: I think I always identify with the main character of a novel, especially if the main character is also the narrator. — But identifying with Severian is too obvious and boring. — So I'll answer a slightly different question: ?"Which character would you like to be, if you could choose to live on Urth?" I would want to be Dr. Talos. ?He gets to exercise his creativity by writing and staging his play. ?He lives on his own terms and by his own wits. ?Baldanders may be his master, but Talos is a valuable expert, not a lackey. — On the other hand, he's not really human... Best wishes,Jack On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote: Courtesy Josh, but an exercise to consider, and got me to thinking... "Which character in TBoTNS do you identify with and why?" I'll go first. I most identify with DROTTE, because I have functioned as a leader most of my life, from being the oldest child in a single-parent family to creative directing teams of people as a professional and everywhere in-between. But of course there are other leaders in this story, and I'm not prepared to identify with Severian that much. And Vodalus is above my pay grade. So I consider my style of leadership more akin to Drotte's, meaning a good balance of sarcasm and honesty, and a knack of garnering an understated respect from those around and beneath you. ...ryan Urth Mailing List To post, write urth at urth.net Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net ``` Best wishes, Jack Urth Mailing List To post, write urth at urth.net Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ``` --- ### Jeff Wilson *02 Aug 2010, 21:37 · in reply to DAVID STOCKHOFF* > Possibly, the lure of gaining all that information---as well as the access > codes that make one the autarch---ensure that anyone who murders the > incumbent (if he knows about it) would succeed him even if he had no > intent to do so, thus preserving the succession. A hired assassin could > become autarch instead of his employer. Where do the children and farmwives come in? --- ### David Stockhoff *03 Aug 2010, 00:59 · in reply to Jeff Wilson* That's a damn good question. You could pass on the codes without the alzabo, but then what happens to your memories? >> Jeff Wilson wrote: >> Possibly, the lure of gaining all that information---as well as the access >> codes that make one the autarch---ensure that anyone who murders the >> incumbent (if he knows about it) would succeed him even if he had no >> intent to do so, thus preserving the succession. A hired assassin could >> become autarch instead of his employer. >> > Where do the children and farmwives come in? > > _______________________________________________ > Urth Mailing List > To post, write urth at urth.net --- ### David Stockhoff *03 Aug 2010, 01:02 · in reply to Ryan Dunn* From what we now know of how memories are stored, yes---we both have 100%. The real question is---how little? > Ryan Dunn wrote: > On Aug 2, 2010, at 3:31 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote: > > >> Maybe that's what became of Sulpicius - he is detained somewhere out of >> sight for an extended period, and is presumed dead by Inire, who thaws out >> one of the unconsumed portion of Sulpicius-minus-1's brain and initiates >> Autarch Sulpicius-plus-1. Meanwhile, just in case his time-bending cousins >> did pick him up, he advises Sulpicius-plus-1 to let stand his >> contingencies. >> > That DOES play to Severian's question to Ultan about how much one would have to eat to obtain all of another one's memories. If you eat the left, and I eat the right, do we both have 100% of the thing of which we ate, etc. > > ...ryan > _______________________________________________ --- ### Jeff Wilson *03 Aug 2010, 02:49 · in reply to David Stockhoff* > On 8/2/2010 7:59 PM, David Stockhoff wrote: > That's a damn good question. You could pass on the codes without the > alzabo, but then what happens to your memories? Another possibility is that the Autarchs add memories of freshly dead Commonwealthers of some merit or useful perspective. As memories fade with succession, they may feel the need to add another of the now inaccessible kind, explaining the multiple children and farmwives. This also explains why Severian is the final Autarch in another way: his eidetic memory revives the fading imprints so that he has sufficient awareness of them that all of them serve him in a significant way at the trial, while someone attempting to add all the memories directly to himself would be driven mad or incapacitated by the myriad, vivid memory-sets all second hand fresh. ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com IEEE Student Chapter Blog at < http://ieeetamut.org > ``` --- ### David Stockhoff *03 Aug 2010, 11:53 · in reply to Jeff Wilson* That works. Even if it was not a routine practice, some autarchs may have done that for various reasons. > Jeff Wilson wrote: > On 8/2/2010 7:59 PM, David Stockhoff wrote: >> That's a damn good question. You could pass on the codes without the >> alzabo, but then what happens to your memories? > Another possibility is that the Autarchs add memories of freshly dead > Commonwealthers of some merit or useful perspective. As memories fade > with succession, they may feel the need to add another of the now > inaccessible kind, explaining the multiple children and farmwives. > > This also explains why Severian is the final Autarch in another way: > his eidetic memory revives the fading imprints so that he has > sufficient awareness of them that all of them serve him in a > significant way at the trial, while someone attempting to add all the > memories directly to himself would be driven mad or incapacitated by > the myriad, vivid memory-sets all second hand fresh. --- ### Jeff Wilson *03 Aug 2010, 23:35 · in reply to David Stockhoff* > On 8/3/2010 6:53 AM, David Stockhoff wrote: > That works. Even if it was not a routine practice, some autarchs may > have done that for various reasons. ...and it explains some of Inire's interest in young people, mwah-hahaha! ``` Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com IEEE Student Chapter Blog at < http://ieeetamut.org > ``` --- ### David Stockhoff *04 Aug 2010, 01:22 · in reply to Jeff Wilson* That make a lot of sense! He'd naturally be interested in smart, fearless children who might make good autarch or autarch-brain-supplement material, perhaps later in their lives. > Jeff Wilson wrote: > On 8/3/2010 6:53 AM, David Stockhoff wrote: >> That works. Even if it was not a routine practice, some autarchs may >> have done that for various reasons. > ...and it explains some of Inire's interest in young people, mwah-hahaha! --- ### Marc Aramini *05 Aug 2010, 07:31 · follows David Stockhoff* Well besides identifying with severian there is a part of me that definitely identifies with hethor. I want to be the estrapade that grinds their joints at times. I have objectified and idolized one or two beautiful women like hethor idolizes his paracoita, and never failed to be disappointed. I am a small and slender fellow myself, and lord knows I have wanted revenge oft enough to taste it for the failure of the world to replace the objects of perfect beauty forever fled beyond my grasp. Marc > On Mon Aug 2nd, 2010 12:28 PM PDT Ryan Dunn wrote: > > On Aug 2, 2010, at 3:14 PM, Paul B wrote: >> is it purely by chance that no Autarch has ever been killed before passing on the contents of his brain? It would seem like an assassin would kill him too quickly for the Autarch to explain the rather unexpected task his killer faces. >> >> Paul > I wonder if the Autarchs have a contingency plan. A USB drive? A sieve and a latrine? Or maybe it's all foreordained to work just so. That would be convenient. > > Another question. The Vodalani, after Vodalus, are they the Agiates? > > Another question... do you think anyone identifies with Hethor? > > ...ryan > _______________________________________________ ---