{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/569",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 569,
    "subject": "memory and abstraction",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "1998-05-07T08:51:26+00:00",
    "last": "1998-05-07T08:51:26+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<urth-v0010-0103@digest.urth.net>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dan Parmenter",
        "address": "dan at lec.com"
      },
      "date": "1998-05-07T08:51:26+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) memory and abstraction",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "From: David_Lebling at avid.com\nI don't have a good explanation for why he first thinks Thrax is by the\nsea, but I think I can nail the other.  Palaemon probably knows Severian\nas well as anyone, and has figured out (as we eventually do) that while\nhe has an exceptional memory, he doesn't have terribly awesome\nanalytical faculties.  Again and again we see him _missing the point_,\nso Palaemon realizes that Severian won't get it, regardless of what he\nsays, but he won't insult Severian by saying so."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I like your explanation.  Especially because it has the ironic\ncomponent that if, following Borges, we assume that people with\nperfect memories aren't very good at abstraction (Funes the Memorious'\nassigning names to numbers for example) and thus aren't the most\nanalytical of people."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "We've been around and around on this issue before; I'm in the camp that\nbelieves there was something different about Severian's memories of\nThecla. Somewhere (where?) he states that the Claw brought her to life\nin his mind, and somewhere else it is stated that the analeptic alzabo's\nmemory effects don't last (this may be when the Old Autarch is\nexplaining _his_ potion in Book IV). Severian's total recall isn't\nenough."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Perhaps the exact means are unimportant - perhaps it's \"all of the\nabove\", the Alzabo, his perfect recall and the powers within him\n(manifesting throught the claw).  It was necessary for Severian to\ngain her memories for various plot purposes, both grand and mundane.\nOne of my favorite examples of the latter is when Severian is in the\nantechamber and his memory of Thecla's excursions with the other young\nexultants to poke the prisoners with cattle prods enables him to\nrecall the location of a hidden door.  In order for Severian to escape\nhe had to experience the memory of the fact that Thecla was a torturer\ntoo (as everyone is after all).\n\nWhatever role the exultants play in this future, it seems obvious that\nWolfe doesn't think much of them.  He seems to depict them as rich\nkids in search of thrills, through drugs (the alzabo), torturing\nprisoners for amusement and occasionally plotting revolutions."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "\"He too was reared by the torturers, I think.\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "This refers back to the scene where the masters ask Severian if he\nwishes to become a journeyman. They want him to understand that if he\nquits before becoming a journeyman, people who meet him will say \"He was\nreared by the torturers,\" but if he accepts elevation and then quits,\npeople will say \"He was a torturer.\"  Perhaps Severian means that both\nhe and Sev1 left the guild?"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Yes, I think you're on the money there.  But wait, there's more!\n(thank you Dr. T.)\n\nI've been re-reading the short description that Wolfe gives of \"The\nFeast of Saint Catherine\", the proposed novella which grew into BOTNS\nand although we've speculated that perhaps this is essentially Sev0's\nstory, I'm afraid I have to reject that hypothesis on the grounds that\nin that story Severian is forgiven by the guild and becomes a Master.\nIt isn't until *after* he's a Master that he receives the letter from\nThecla and I don't think he ever was supposed to become Autarch.  But\nthe Sev0 of the actual BOTNS apparently made it to the Autarchy before\nreturning to his guild to be elevated whether he wanted to or not.\n\nFrom: tony.ellis at futurenet.co.uk (Tony Ellis)"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "For Dan Parmenter, and anyone else who hasn't seen them, I've \nscanned and uploaded the Bruce Pennington TBOTNS covers.\nThey can be found at:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Thanks!"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Let's have your opinions, if any."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "They're great!  But I'm starting to wonder if these are the other ones\nI remember!  Now we hear of a third set!  Good heavens."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}