{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5735", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5735, "subject": "GUT's and so on", "messages": 13, "voices": 7, "first": "2010-09-05T19:42:29+00:00", "last": "2010-09-06T18:54:05+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-05T19:42:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn- As I read it, the Shadow Children are the degenerate remnants of the \noriginal human discoverers of St. Croix. The hillmen and marshmen are the \nSt. Croix aborigines who took on the discoverers' original form. They were \nalready of human appearance when the psychic shield surrounding the twin \nplanets was removed and the French colonists came." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI think it is Ste. Anne. But anyway, the text is deliberately confusing, everywhere, \nin relationship to identity. I almost despair of being able to provide the quotes which \nlead me to believe Shadow Children are a version of the original inhabitants of Ste. Anne \nbut I'll try. \n \nI can see where the interpretation of Shadow Children as degenerate humans comes from.\nIt is presented first, but then (I think) called into question.\n \nAs Old Wise One speaks to Sandwalker in the pit:\n \n\"When we came, we looked as you do now--...You come from a race of shape-changers--\nlike those we called werewolves in our old home. When we came, some of you looked like\nevery beast and some were of fantastic forms inspired by the clouds--or by lava flows \nor water. But we walked among you in power and majesty and might, hissing like a thousand\nserpents as we splashed down into your sea...\"\n \nThere is the suggestion that the chewing of an addictive plant is what caused the \ncrash-landed humans to become Shadow Children. Okay, fine, so there it is, the two races \nexplained. \n \n \nBut then there are doubts. The abos are all of human form and behavior. It is the Shadow \nChildren who are weird looking and seem indeterminate in their number and solidity. You \nnever know how many of them there are or or whether they will be tangible or ethereal.\n \nThe Old Wise One says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or Gondwanaland, Africa, \nPoictesme or the Country of Friends." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nNot sure about Country of Friends unless it refers to Quakers. But Atlantis is a legendary\ncontinent of the Atlantic Ocean. Mu the same for the Pacific. Gondwanaland is the name of\na pre-cursor to Pangaea (existing long before humanity). Poictesme is a fictional province\nof France in the work of a somewhat obscure fantasy writer, James Branch Cabell. \n \nAfrica is okay but the other possible homelands leave me very suspicious about the true \nEarthly origins of Shadow Children.\n \nThen there is this passage as Sandwalker and the Old Wise One discuss names of Shadow Children:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "OWO: \"We had no names before men came out of the sky. We were mostly long, and lived in holes\nbetween the roots of trees.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "SW: \"I thought we were the ones.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "OWO admits: \"I am confused\". There are so many of you now and so few of us\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n \nI interpret this to mean that the Old Wise One has started to have glimmers of what Shadow\nChildren's true origin is- vague shape changers. Most of his race has became fully human abos\nand fully think they are human and have developed human abilities such as tool use. Shadow \nChildren are those who made only a partial transformation to human form and have appearance, \nabilities and memories which are part human, part local shape-changer. \n \nThere is some talk about how Shadow Children have the ability to sing across the stars and lure\nhuman beings to to them and again the Old Wise One claims confusion on which one of the races \nthey are. And we know it is the Shadow Children who sing.\n \nIn the last discussion of such things another Shadow Child says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Men cross the stars, bending the sky to make the way short. Since first we came here----\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Since first THEY came here,\" the Old Wise One corrected him gently. \"Now I am half a man and \nknow that we were always here, listening to thought that did not come; listening without thought\nof our own to be men. Or it may be that all are one stock, half-remembering and dwindling, half-\nforgetting and flourishing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nSo, as so often from Gene Wolfe, we are given one explanation. Then another which contradicts it. \nThen a final sentence which completely muddies up and merges the whole thing. But for me I have\nto think Shadow Children are mostly versions of the local residents. The stuff about them being \npurely humans stunted by chewing a drug plant seems on a par with Inhumi flying through space. A\nlie told so bald-facedly that we can't help but believe it, at first.\n \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "entonio at gmail.com", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-05T21:02:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No dia 2010/09/05, ?s 20:42, Lee Berman \nescreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or \nGondwanaland, Africa,\nPoictesme or the Country of Friends." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Not sure about Country of Friends" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Possibly Cymru. " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C8424E2.2080007@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-09-05T23:16:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Why?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/5/2010 5:02 PM, entonio at gmail.com wrote:\nNo dia 2010/09/05, ?s 20:42, Lee Berman \nescreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "\"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or \nGondwanaland, Africa,\nPoictesme or the Country of Friends." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Not sure about Country of Friends" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Possibly Cymru._______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-06T01:01:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 6:32 AM, wrote:\nNo dia 2010/09/05, ?s 20:42, Lee Berman \nescreveu:\n\n\n \"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or Gondwanaland,\nAfrica,\nPoictesme or the Country of Friends." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Not sure about Country of Friends" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Possibly Cymru._______________________________________________" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Or \"Philly\" at a stretch, by association with \"philai\" = \"friends\". (Now\nthat I write it down, vaguely remember somebody else suggesting that\nsometime in the deep past.)" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C8464D8.1010209@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-09-06T03:49:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Of course, Philly is not the only Philadelphia, historically. The \nGreeks had a few.\n\nHowever, it doesn't seem quite on a par with the others ... it ought to \nbe a literary reference, not a real one. That would be my guess.\n\nOTOH, it's a lot like \"the land of the Neighbors.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/5/2010 9:01 PM, Mr Thalassocrat wrote:\n\n\nOn Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 6:32 AM, > wrote:\n\n No dia 2010/09/05, ?s 20:42, Lee Berman > escreveu:\n\n\n \"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or\n Gondwanaland, Africa,\n Poictesme or the Country of Friends.\n\n\n Not sure about Country of Friends\n\n\n Possibly Cymru._______________________________________________ \n\nOr \"Philly\" at a stretch, by association with \"philai\" = \"friends\". \n(Now that I write it down, vaguely remember somebody else suggesting \nthat sometime in the deep past.)\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C8480F5.9050908@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-09-06T05:49:41+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/5/2010 2:42 PM, Lee Berman wrote:\nThe Old Wise One says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or Gondwanaland, Africa,\nPoictesme or the Country of Friends." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Not sure about Country of Friends unless it refers to Quakers. But Atlantis is a legendary\ncontinent of the Atlantic Ocean. Mu the same for the Pacific. Gondwanaland is the name of\na pre-cursor to Pangaea (existing long before humanity). Poictesme is a fictional province\nof France in the work of a somewhat obscure fantasy writer, James Branch Cabell.\n\nAfrica is okay but the other possible homelands leave me very suspicious about the true\nEarthly origins of Shadow Children." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The \"Country of Friends\" is almost certainly a reference to Texas, named \nafter the the indigenous word for \"friends\". Texas is quadruply \nappropriate as the boyhood home state of Gene Wolfe, as an assimilated \ncolony, as the center of the American space program, and as part of the \narea where Coronado encountered similar deception and duplicity in his \nquest for El Dorado.\n\n\tIt's also worth knowing that Coronado wrote that he considered the land \nto be useless, while standing amidst the undepleted buffalo herds, \nshortly to be \"changed into\" a new way of life for the plains indians \nand then into wealth for the colonizing Europeans." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-06T07:50:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "<4C8480F5.9050908@io.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson- The \"Country of Friends\" is almost certainly a reference to Texas, \nnamed after the the indigenous word for \"friends\". Texas is quadruply appropriate \nas the boyhood home state of Gene Wolfe." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI like this explanation pretty well. Also, the state motto of Texas is \"Friendship\",\nbased on the Caddo word.\n \nPhiladelphia seems a longer shot- its name most commonly translated as \"brotherly \nlove\" but as the center of the \"Quaker\" religion the preferred name of which is \"The\nReligious Society of Friends\". \n \nMoreover, Texas is more like a \"Land\" while Philly is more like an urban jungle. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<120826.84632.qm@smtp824.mail.ird.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2010-09-06T08:47:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 20:42 05/09/2010, you wrote:\nAfrica is okay but the other possible homelands leave me very \nsuspicious about the true\nEarthly origins of Shadow Children." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In Classical times Africa was seen as a land of mythic wonders, hence \n\"ex Africa semper aliquid novi\". So I think this fits into the \nfantastical pattern of the other suggested homelands.\n\nI take all this to be flagging the Shadow Children up as analogous to \nthe various fay myths that humans have cherished on Earth. Perhaps \nWolfe is hinting at a galaxy-wide settlement of fay-analogues before \nhumans came along -- like in Poul Anderson's 'The Queen of Air and \nDarkness', if I'm remembering that correctly." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Poictesme is a fictional province of France in the work of a \nsomewhat obscure fantasy writer, James Branch Cabell." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sad to reflect that Cabell is now fairly described as \"somewhat \nobscure\". He was hugely influential on a wide range of SF & F \nauthors, and I think much of his work is still very worthwhile and \ninteresting. Lots of it can be read on Project Gutenberg, as it's out \nof copyright -- I recommend starting with Jurgen: \nhttp://www.gutenberg.org/etext/8771\n\nMo\n\n\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki -- a wiki about Gene Wolfe\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C84B677.8020606@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-09-06T09:37:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/6/2010 2:50 AM, Lee Berman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Jeff Wilson- The \"Country of Friends\" is almost certainly a reference to Texas,\nnamed after the the indigenous word for \"friends\". Texas is quadruply appropriate\nas the boyhood home state of Gene Wolfe." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I like this explanation pretty well. Also, the state motto of Texas is \"Friendship\",\nbased on the Caddo word.\n\nPhiladelphia seems a longer shot- its name most commonly translated as \"brotherly\nlove\" but as the center of the \"Quaker\" religion the preferred name of which is \"The\nReligious Society of Friends\".\n\nMoreover, Texas is more like a \"Land\" while Philly is more like an urban jungle. \t\t \t \t\t" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Texas is referred to as \"the land of friends\" in another Wolfe story of \nthe period, \"Feather Tigers\", which also features alien inheritors and \nvanished races and colonialism." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-06T10:58:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "<4C84B677.8020606@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Sep 6, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\n\n\nTexas is referred to as \"the land of friends\" in another Wolfe story of the\nperiod, \"Feather Tigers\", which also features alien inheritors and vanished\nraces and colonialism." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yup, Texas it is, I think." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4C84F05C.9090503@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-09-06T13:45:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "<4C8480F5.9050908@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Ahh, I wondered if there might be a way to get Texas on that list ..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/6/2010 1:49 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nOn 9/5/2010 2:42 PM, Lee Berman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The Old Wise One says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "\"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or \nGondwanaland, Africa,\nPoictesme or the Country of Friends." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Not sure about Country of Friends unless it refers to Quakers. But \nAtlantis is a legendary\ncontinent of the Atlantic Ocean. Mu the same for the Pacific. \nGondwanaland is the name of\na pre-cursor to Pangaea (existing long before humanity). Poictesme is \na fictional province\nof France in the work of a somewhat obscure fantasy writer, James \nBranch Cabell.\n\nAfrica is okay but the other possible homelands leave me very \nsuspicious about the true\nEarthly origins of Shadow Children." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The \"Country of Friends\" is almost certainly a reference to Texas, \nnamed after the the indigenous word for \"friends\". Texas is quadruply \nappropriate as the boyhood home state of Gene Wolfe, as an assimilated \ncolony, as the center of the American space program, and as part of \nthe area where Coronado encountered similar deception and duplicity in \nhis quest for El Dorado.\n\n It's also worth knowing that Coronado wrote that he considered the \nland to be useless, while standing amidst the undepleted buffalo \nherds, shortly to be \"changed into\" a new way of life for the plains \nindians and then into wealth for the colonizing Europeans." } ] }, { "message_id": "<70CC1A49939A4222BD8777CF46E4B55A@jill>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2010-09-06T18:14:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: \"Lee Berman\" \nTo: >Gerry Quinn- As I read it, the Shadow Children are \nthe degenerate remnants of the" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "original human discoverers of St. Croix. The hillmen and marshmen are the\nSt. Croix aborigines who took on the discoverers' original form. They \nwere\nalready of human appearance when the psychic shield surrounding the twin\nplanets was removed and the French colonists came." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think it is Ste. Anne. But anyway, the text is deliberately confusing, \neverywhere,\nin relationship to identity. I almost despair of being able to provide the \nquotes which\nlead me to believe Shadow Children are a version of the original \ninhabitants of Ste. Anne\nbut I'll try.\n\nI can see where the interpretation of Shadow Children as degenerate humans \ncomes from.\nIt is presented first, but then (I think) called into question.\n\nAs Old Wise One speaks to Sandwalker in the pit:\n\n\"When we came, we looked as you do now--...You come from a race of \nshape-changers--\nlike those we called werewolves in our old home. When we came, some of you \nlooked like\nevery beast and some were of fantastic forms inspired by the clouds--or by \nlava flows\nor water. But we walked among you in power and majesty and might, hissing \nlike a thousand\nserpents as we splashed down into your sea...\"\n\nThere is the suggestion that the chewing of an addictive plant is what \ncaused the\ncrash-landed humans to become Shadow Children. Okay, fine, so there it is, \nthe two races\nexplained.\n\nBut then there are doubts. The abos are all of human form and behavior. It \nis the Shadow\nChildren who are weird looking and seem indeterminate in their number and \nsolidity. You\nnever know how many of them there are or or whether they will be tangible \nor ethereal." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nevertheless, they exist. Something is known of Earth. Contact must have \nbren made." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Old Wise One says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"It is possible that our home was named Atlantis or Mu--or Gondwanaland, \nAfrica,\nPoictesme or the Country of Friends." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Not sure about Country of Friends unless it refers to Quakers. But \nAtlantis is a legendary\ncontinent of the Atlantic Ocean. Mu the same for the Pacific. Gondwanaland \nis the name of\na pre-cursor to Pangaea (existing long before humanity). Poictesme is a \nfictional province\nof France in the work of a somewhat obscure fantasy writer, James Branch \nCabell.\n\nAfrica is okay but the other possible homelands leave me very suspicious \nabout the true\nEarthly origins of Shadow Children." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From a literary viewpoint, they are reflections of the suggestions of Daviod \nand the narrator in _5HoC_." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Then there is this passage as Sandwalker and the Old Wise One discuss \nnames of Shadow Children:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "OWO: \"We had no names before men came out of the sky. We were mostly long, \nand lived in holes\nbetween the roots of trees.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "SW: \"I thought we were the ones.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "OWO admits: \"I am confused\". There are so many of you now and so few of \nus\"." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I interpret this to mean that the Old Wise One has started to have \nglimmers of what Shadow\nChildren's true origin is- vague shape changers. Most of his race has \nbecame fully human abos\nand fully think they are human and have developed human abilities such as \ntool use. Shadow\nChildren are those who made only a partial transformation to human form \nand have appearance,\nabilities and memories which are part human, part local shape-changer." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My interpretation is that the degenerate human discoverers have become \noutnumbered, and have for that reason become confused as to their own \nnature.. Their telepathy was always based on the reflections from the abos." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "There is some talk about how Shadow Children have the ability to sing \nacross the stars and lure\nhuman beings to to them and again the Old Wise One claims confusion on \nwhich one of the races\nthey are. And we know it is the Shadow Children who sing.\n\nIn the last discussion of such things another Shadow Child says:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"Men cross the stars, bending the sky to make the way short. Since first \nwe came here----\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "\"Since first THEY came here,\" the Old Wise One corrected him gently. \"Now \nI am half a man and\nknow that we were always here, listening to thought that did not come; \nlistening without thought\nof our own to be men. Or it may be that all are one stock, \nhalf-remembering and dwindling, half-\nforgetting and flourishing." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There is only one Shadow Child left from the group - and then there is also \nSandwalker, the Shadowfriend. The Old Wise One is now half a man, meaning \nthat he is also half an abo. He is constructed equally from both. It is \nexplained how that works.\n\nPreviously, there were multiple Shadow Children, and only one Shadowfriend." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "So, as so often from Gene Wolfe, we are given one explanation. Then \nanother which contradicts it.\nThen a final sentence which completely muddies up and merges the whole \nthing. But for me I have\nto think Shadow Children are mostly versions of the local residents. The \nstuff about them being\npurely humans stunted by chewing a drug plant seems on a par with Inhumi \nflying through space. A\nlie told so bald-facedly that we can't help but believe it, at first." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I do believe it - I think it is the straightforward interpretation.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "entonio at gmail.com", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-06T18:54:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) GUT's and so on", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No dia 2010/09/05, ?s 20:42, Lee Berman \nescreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Inhumi flying through space. A\nlie told so bald-facedly that we can't help but believe it, at first." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just as an aside, Horm does say the inhumi actually travel to Blue in \nAuk's lander." } ] } ] }