{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5753",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5753,
    "subject": "Typhon",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2010-09-26T19:15:49+00:00",
    "last": "2010-09-26T19:15:49+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<AANLkTi=HUjwxpgCEe4_Uyaf1p2=SoGQN1dEwuBvBXrEK@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Andrew Mason",
        "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-09-26T19:15:49+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Typhon",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Roy C. Lackey wrtoe:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Andrew Mason wrote:"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 2,
          "text": "I has assumed that Typhon created the Empire - that seems to be\nCyriaca's view (or that he tried to); that the ruler she's talking\nabout is Typhon is supported by his bringing the books to the Citadel,\nwhich is explicitly ascribed to Typhon in _Urth_."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Yes, her story seems to link him to the library at the Citadel, and the\nphysician who looked in on Severian there after the \"earthquake\" lends that\nsome support. But Typhon had dreams of a Second Empire, as her tale\nspecifies. The First Empire had covered the whole galaxy and maybe others.\nThe old spaceships at the Citadel in Typhon's time were rusting relics of\nany earlier wave of spacefare; the Citadel is even referred to then as the\n\"old port\". Typhon evidently ruled some undetermined number of planets, some\nof them probably outside of Urth's solar system, but such planets as he\nruled paled in comparison to the First Empire."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Yes - I don't mean that Typhon established the first empire. But\nclearly - if there is a even a grain of truth in 'I ruled this planet\nand many more' - he had an empire of some sort, and the question then\narises whether he established it, or whether it existed before him -\nperhaps as a surviving fragment of the first empire. Which is right\nwould affect the significance of his claim to have chosen Urth as his\ncapital. But it looks as if we aren't in a position to know the\nanswer."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Typhon's _Whorl_ expedition was more of a gesture than anything else, a\none-finger salute to the universe and a sop to his ego. It had absolutely\nnothing to do with preserving the human race or spreading it around the\ngalaxy."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I guess that's true. I speculated earlier that the way to reconcile,\non the one hand, the various references to a possible return to the\nstars, and, on the other hand,  the evidence that there are already\nhumans out among the stars, is to say that that the humans out there\nnow are just isolated colonies, not leaping amiong the stars, 'the\nmasters of the daughters of the sun' (whatever that means). But of\ncourse the Whorl isn't really going to help with that - it will just\ncreate one more isolated colony."
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}