{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5757",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5757,
    "subject": "Mandragora and Sev",
    "messages": 3,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "2010-09-26T20:57:56+00:00",
    "last": "2010-09-27T04:58:17+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<AANLkTi=ZvegNhBtj3EnF0BRQFb1pnfzDa4XQ8utHz+O3@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "anthony davis",
        "address": "synthdiy at gmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-09-26T20:57:56+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Mandragora and Sev",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I don't have any evidence at my disposal for or against the theory that the\nMandragora in the Autarch's visiting room is a Severian clone/embryo but I\nwanted to remind the list of Budrys' idea in Rogue Moon that a person under\nsensory deprivation shares the experiences of its clone. Thoughts?\n-anthony"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<AANLkTimx=SJe2QJgHx0ogALuTuwJVPoxUNVZ_mwqp+bW@mail.gmail.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Dave Tallman",
        "address": "davetallman at msn.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-09-27T04:52:41+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Mandragora and Sev",
      "in_reply_to": "<AANLkTi=ZvegNhBtj3EnF0BRQFb1pnfzDa4XQ8utHz+O3@mail.gmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "anthony davis wrote:\n\nI don't have any evidence at my disposal for or against the theory\nthat the Mandragora in the Autarch's visiting room is a Severian\nclone/embryo but I wanted to remind the list of Budrys' idea in Rogue\nMoon that a person under sensory deprivation shares the experiences of\nits clone. Thoughts?\n\n\nI remember *Rogue Moon*, which had the idea of getting through a\ndifficult alien obstacle course using clones. It could be a pattern\nused by Wolfe when he created the \"I am not the first Severian\" plot.\nThe alien obstacle course in his case is to create a worthy bringer of\nthe New Sun.\n\nHere are some quotes from Sev and the Mandragora that may shed some\nlight (or not).\n\n...\"And who are you?\"\n\n\"*A being without parents, whose life is passed immersed in blood.*\"\n\n\"Why, such have I been! We should be friends then, you and I, as two\nof similar background usually are.\"\n\n\"*You jest.*\"\n\n\"Not at all. I feel a real sympathy for you, and I think we are more\nalike than you believe.\"\n\n...\"*I wish that I might credit you, Autarch.*\"\n\n-----------------\n\nThe Mandragora seems quite skeptical of Sev's claim of kinship, and\nSev may in fact be lying about his feelings in order to draw the\ncreature into conversation. But sometimes things Sev says in ignorance\nor as lies turn out to be ironically true in the end.  Maybe they\nreally are both beings without parents, brother clones."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<8B5E7ECB-7E7E-47D4-8F6E-661031DA266B@liftingfaces.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Ryan Dunn",
        "address": "ryan at liftingfaces.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-09-27T04:58:17+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Mandragora and Sev",
      "in_reply_to": "<AANLkTimx=SJe2QJgHx0ogALuTuwJVPoxUNVZ_mwqp+bW@mail.gmail.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "...\"And who are you?\"\n\n\"A being without parents, whose life is passed immersed in blood.\"\n\n\n\"Why, such have I been! We should be friends then, you and I, as two of similar background usually are.\"\n\n\"You jest.\"\n\n\"Not at all. I feel a real sympathy for you, and I think we are more alike than you believe.\"\n\n\n...\"I wish that I might credit you, Autarch.\"\n\n-----------------\n\nThe Mandragora seems quite skeptical of Sev's claim of kinship, and Sev may in fact be lying about his feelings in order to draw the creature into conversation. But sometimes things Sev says in ignorance or as lies turn out to be ironically true in the end.  Maybe they really are both beings without parents, brother clones."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "See, I took this more on its face value, like when Harry Potter reads the sign next to the Burmese Python exhibit that says \"Bred in captivity,\" and Harry says, \"That's me as well.\"\n\nWhy don't we just call the Mandragora Father Inire and be done with it? Doesn't Severian remark that Inire turns out to be one of his only real friends in his life at some point?\n\n:)\n\n...ryan"
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}