{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5762", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5762, "subject": "note Re Short Sun Blog", "messages": 3, "voices": 2, "first": "2010-09-29T13:27:34+00:00", "last": "2010-09-30T14:16:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-29T13:27:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) note Re Short Sun Blog", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It would be interesting to see Merryn's contribution to this discussion." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-29T15:39:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) note Re Short Sun Blog", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Andrew Mason- It would be interesting to see Merryn's contribution to this discussion." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nYes, if Dorcas and the Cumaean are included in the convesation." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Merryn- \"She has been imbued with a glamour that rendered her beautiful. It is fading fast\nnow because of the blood she lost and because she has had a great deal of\nexercise. By morning only traces will remain.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dorcas drew back, \"Magic, you mean?\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Merryn- \"There is no magic. There is only knowledge, more or less hidden.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "...Dorcas whispered, \"But how was this done?\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Merryn- \"There have been substances drawn from the glands of beasts added to her blood, to\nchange the pattern in which her flesh was deposited...etc." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dorcas asked the Cumaean, \"Who was this Apu-Punchau and why is his palace still\nstanding when the rest of the town is only tumbled stones?\"\nWhen the old woman did not reply, Merryn said, \"Less than a legend, for not even\nscholars now remember his story. The Mother has told us that his name means the\nHead of Day. In the earliest eons he appeared among the people here and taught\nthem many wonderful secrets. Often he vanished, but always he returned. At last he\ndid not return, and invaders laid waste to his cities. Now he shall return for the\nlast time.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"Indeed. Without magic?\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Cumaean looked up at Dorcas with eyes that seemed as bright as the stars.\n\"Words are symbols. Merryn chooses to delimit magic as that which does not exist .\n. . and so it does not exist. If you choose to call what we are about to do here\nmagic then magic lives while we do it." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2010-09-30T14:16:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) note Re Short Sun blog", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Lee Berman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Andrew Mason- ?It would be interesting to see Merryn's contribution to this discussion." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, if Dorcas and the Cumaean are included in the convesation." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Quite so. My point, made less cryptically, is that these matters are\ndebated withing the story, and they seem there to be treated largely\nas philosophical ones.\n\nPersonally I have a lot of sympathy with Merryn. Whatever is, is part\nof nature. Vampires, for instance, do not exist (we think) in the\nworld as we have it, but in a world where they did exist they would be\nnatural beings - the laws of nature would be different. It is hard to\nwork out a coherent definition of the supernatural which, on the one\nhand, does not reduce to 'inexplicable by _current_ science' (which\nwould block new scientific discoveries) but which, on the other hand,\ndraws a meaningful distinction between the natural and the\nsupernatural.\n\nThat said, there does seem to be something distinctive about\nSeverian's powers. Hierodules, hierogrammates and sea-monsters have\npowers which _we_ cannot explain, but can be seen as part of the\nnature of the universe they live in. But Severian has powers which no\none else has, so could be called 'supernatural'' in that a general\naccount of the universe wouldn't include them. This is so, I think,\nwhether or not he works by turning back time, and whether or not he\nworks through biological processes - it's still true that what\n_starts_ those processes is not part of the ordinary order of nature." } ] } ] }