{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5767", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5767, "subject": "7AN: The Adventures of Hajji Baba", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2010-10-22T22:55:56+00:00", "last": "2010-10-26T15:20:49+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2010-10-22T22:55:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 7AN: The Adventures of Hajji Baba", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "James Morier's Hajji Baba of Ispahan, The Adventures of Hajji\nBabais a famous book that may be\na source Wolfe drew on for ideas and character\nnames in \"Seven American Nights\". This book was written in the 1800's and\ndetails the picaresque adventures of Hajji Baba, a barber. It features\ncharacters named the Mollah Nadan, Mirza Amak, and Osman Aga. Credit for\nthis find goes to JazzCat, a poster on http;//usefulphrases.yuku.com (It's\ninteresting that in this work the name Nadan is given to a religious leader,\na mullah).\n\nAccording to Robert Borski's posting on urth.net:\n\n While seeming a plausible Arab name, \"Nadan,\" in fact, is something you\n would be ill-mannered in calling anyone. In Farsi it means \"stupid,\nidiot;\"\n therefore, by extension, the same thing that 'cretin' does.\n\nWith the discovery of \"The Adventures of Hajji Baba\" that claim about\nNadan's name is partially invalidated. In translation, \"Hadjji Baba\" is a\nwell-known work of Persian literature, and any name drawn from it would be a\nreasonable name for a child. In the printed text of the English version of\nthe book (available online through Google books), the name shows up as\n\"Molah Nadân\". According to\nhttp://www.khamush.com/persian/rubaie236.htm, \"Nadân-ám\" means\n\"I cannot.\"\n\nI'm becoming convinced that Wolfe read this book as part of his background\nresearch for the story and picked that name deliberately. Molah Nadan\nchanges clothing with the narrator and ends up being punished for a crime in\nhis place. A Christ figure, perhaps?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<8CD41CB3A07DDEA-B2C-1B974@webmail-m099.sysops.aol.com>", "from": { "name": "stoneox17 at aol.com", "address": "stoneox17 at aol.com" }, "date": "2010-10-24T19:46:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 7AN and Nadan (was 7AN: The Adventures of Hajji Baba)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Dave Tallman writes:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "James Morier's Hajji Baba of Ispahan, The Adventures of Hajji Baba is a\nfamous book that may be a source Wolfe drew on for ideas and character\nnames in \"Seven American Nights\". This book was written in the 1800's\nand details the picaresque adventures of Hajji Baba, a barber. It \nfeatures\ncharacters named the Mollah Nadan, Mirza Amak, and Osman Aga. Credit\nfor this find goes to JazzCat, a poster on \nhttp;//usefulphrases.yuku.com\n(It's interesting that in this work the name Nadan is given to a \nreligious leader,\na mullah)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "According to Robert Borski's posting on urth.net:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " While seeming a plausible Arab name, \"Nadan,\" in fact, is something \nyou\n would be ill-mannered in calling anyone. In Farsi it means \"stupid, \nidiot;\"\n therefore, by extension, the same thing that 'cretin' does." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "With the discovery of \"The Adventures of Hajji Baba\" that claim about\nNadan's name is partially invalidated. In translation, \"Hadjji Baba\" " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "is a" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "well-known work of Persian literature, and any name drawn from it \nwould\nbe a reasonable name for a child. In the printed text of the English \nversion\nof the book (available online through Google books), the name shows\nup as \"Molah Nadân\". According to " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.khamush.com/persian/rubaie236.htm, >\"Nadân-ám\" \nmeans \"I cannot.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm becoming convinced that Wolfe read this book as part of his \nbackground\nresearch for the story and picked that name deliberately. Molah Nadan\nchanges clothing with the narrator and ends up being punished for a \ncrime\nin his place. A Christ figure, perhaps?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Googling a while ago, I came across another instance of the name Nadan.\nIt comes from the story of Nadan and Ahikar (or Ahiqar), which is a \nstory\nfrom the Middle East from Biblical times, and which Wolfe also may have\nbeen familiar with.\n\nThe International Standard Bible Encyclopedia summarizes it as follows:\n\n\"Ahikar ... adopts as heir his nephew Nadan. The unappreciative youth\nfalsely accuses his benefactor of treason, whereupon Ahikar escapes\ndeath only through the intervention of an executioner whom he himself\nhad once spared,\"\n\nEventually Ahikar is restored to his position, and Nadan is punished.\n\nPeter S" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4CC6F1D1.9010208@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-10-26T15:20:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) 7AN: The Adventures of Hajji Baba", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I love this sort of post.\n\nThat he is punished in the place of another, Molah Nadan is a Christ figure." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/22/2010 5:55 PM, Dave Tallman wrote:\nJames Morier's Hajji Baba of Ispahan, The Adventures of Hajji Baba \n is a famous book that may be a \nsource Wolfe drew on for ideas and character names in \"Seven American \nNights\". This book was written in the 1800's and details the \npicaresque adventures of Hajji Baba, a barber. It features characters \nnamed the Mollah Nadan, Mirza Amak, and Osman Aga. Credit for this \nfind goes to JazzCat, a poster on http;//usefulphrases.yuku.com \n (It's interesting that in this work \nthe name Nadan is given to a religious leader, a mullah).\n\nAccording to Robert Borski's posting on urth.net :\n\n While seeming a plausible Arab name, \"Nadan,\" in fact, is \nsomething you\n would be ill-mannered in calling anyone. In Farsi it means \n\"stupid, idiot;\"\n therefore, by extension, the same thing that 'cretin' does.\n\nWith the discovery of \"The Adventures of Hajji Baba\" that claim about \nNadan's name is partially invalidated. In translation, \"Hadjji Baba\" \nis a well-known work of Persian literature, and any name drawn from it \nwould be a reasonable name for a child. In the printed text of the \nEnglish version of the book (available online through Google books), \nthe name shows up as \"Molah Nadân\". According to \nhttp://www.khamush.com/persian/rubaie236.htm, \"Nadân-ám\" \nmeans \"I cannot.\"\n\nI'm becoming convinced that Wolfe read this book as part of his \nbackground research for the story and picked that name deliberately. \nMolah Nadan changes clothing with the narrator and ends up being \npunished for a crime in his place. A Christ figure, perhaps?\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }