{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5768", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5768, "subject": "Concrete", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2010-10-29T20:42:48+00:00", "last": "2010-10-30T06:43:15+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<3A4DC20A-3224-499F-95D8-04741C1939AD@butcherbaker.org>", "from": { "name": "Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2010-10-29T20:42:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Concrete", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Howdy listers, lurkers, and layabouts,\n\nAs I've mentioned previously, I'm working on some illustrations related to New Sun...\nI have another question for you scientifically \"hard\" minded readers.\n\nConcrete. Is there some reason that I've not yet thought of that would prevent concrete casting from being a viable technology on Urth in Ymar's or Severian's time It strikes me that concrete casting is a method that humanity would not lose, and I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be used on Urth. \n\nThis came to mind when reading the Innovation comic, where the Oubliette is pictured with medieval stone masonry. The thought of a spaceport built on walls of rounded stone just seems wrong to me. No, the citadel would have tons and tons of concrete along with it's unsmeltable metal.\n\nAm I wrong?\n\n\n~Son of Witz" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4CCB34C5.20007@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-10-29T20:55:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Concrete", "in_reply_to": "<3A4DC20A-3224-499F-95D8-04741C1939AD@butcherbaker.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree that concrete is a tough technology to lose. The Romans had it. \nIf anything, modern improvements have only produced weaker, \nshorter-lived but quicker-setting concrete.\n\nI also agree that the spaceport would have included a flat concrete pad \nat one time. Whether it still exists in Severian's time is another \nquestion. But surely there wouldn't be any stones UNDER the rocket ships \nthat form the towers of the Citadel.\n\nIMHO." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/29/2010 4:42 PM, Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org wrote:\nHowdy listers, lurkers, and layabouts,\n\nAs I've mentioned previously, I'm working on some illustrations related to New Sun...\nI have another question for you scientifically \"hard\" minded readers.\n\nConcrete. Is there some reason that I've not yet thought of that would prevent concrete casting from being a viable technology on Urth in Ymar's or Severian's time It strikes me that concrete casting is a method that humanity would not lose, and I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be used on Urth.\n\nThis came to mind when reading the Innovation comic, where the Oubliette is pictured with medieval stone masonry. The thought of a spaceport built on walls of rounded stone just seems wrong to me. No, the citadel would have tons and tons of concrete along with it's unsmeltable metal.\n\nAm I wrong?\n\n\n~Son of Witz\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2010-10-29T22:04:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Concrete", "in_reply_to": "<3A4DC20A-3224-499F-95D8-04741C1939AD@butcherbaker.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \nConcrete. Is there some reason that I've not yet thought of that would \nprevent concrete casting from being a viable technology on Urth in Ymar's \nor Severian's time It strikes me that concrete casting is a method that \nhumanity would not lose, and I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't \nbe used on Urth.\n\nThis came to mind when reading the Innovation comic, where the Oubliette \nis pictured with medieval stone masonry. The thought of a spaceport built \non walls of rounded stone just seems wrong to me. No, the citadel would \nhave tons and tons of concrete along with it's unsmeltable metal." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree. Unless some futuristic technology makes it really easy to cut \nperfectly-shaped stone blocks!\n\n(I always liked how in World of Warcraft the blasted fortress of Auchindown \nis seen to be constructed of reinforced concrete - it was a slight surprise \nin a fantasy world but I thought it worked very well.)\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2010-10-30T03:49:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Concrete", "in_reply_to": "<4CCB34C5.20007@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks. I done forgot about them Romans having cement. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Oct 29, 2010, at 1:55 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nI agree that concrete is a tough technology to lose. The Romans had it. If anything, modern improvements have only produced weaker, shorter-lived but quicker-setting concrete.\n\nI also agree that the spaceport would have included a flat concrete pad at one time. Whether it still exists in Severian's time is another question. But surely there wouldn't be any stones UNDER the rocket ships that form the towers of the Citadel.\n\nIMHO.\n\nOn 10/29/2010 4:42 PM, Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Howdy listers, lurkers, and layabouts,\n\nAs I've mentioned previously, I'm working on some illustrations related to New Sun...\nI have another question for you scientifically \"hard\" minded readers.\n\nConcrete. Is there some reason that I've not yet thought of that would prevent concrete casting from being a viable technology on Urth in Ymar's or Severian's time It strikes me that concrete casting is a method that humanity would not lose, and I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't be used on Urth.\n\nThis came to mind when reading the Innovation comic, where the Oubliette is pictured with medieval stone masonry. The thought of a spaceport built on walls of rounded stone just seems wrong to me. No, the citadel would have tons and tons of concrete along with it's unsmeltable metal.\n\nAm I wrong?\n\n\n~Son of Witz\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4CCBBE83.1090206@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-10-30T06:43:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Concrete", "in_reply_to": "<3A4DC20A-3224-499F-95D8-04741C1939AD@butcherbaker.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/29/2010 3:42 PM, Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org wrote:\nHowdy listers, lurkers, and layabouts,\n\nAs I've mentioned previously, I'm working on some illustrations related to New Sun...\nI have another question for you scientifically \"hard\" minded readers.\n\nConcrete. Is there some reason that I've not yet thought of that\nwould prevent concrete casting from being a viable technology on Urth\nin Ymar's or Severian's time It strikes me that concrete casting is\na method that humanity would not lose, and I can't think of any\nreason why it wouldn't be used on Urth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Speaking as a playtester for GURPS LOW-TECH (coming to a gamestore near \nyou!): concrete is ancient; many Roman buildings include concrete and \nmortar construction, but it is very time consuming and labor intensive \nto make. Once motorized mixing is available (there are any number of \nstill-moving machines on Urth), the chief expense becomes transporting \nthe component earths from where the may be found (a problem with the \nroads closed in the Commonwealth) *if* they may be found after chiliads \nof construction.\n\nI think the oubliette can be explained by having the ship-towers \ngrounded in a field that is the remains of the old port, and the Citadel \nwas made by putting up the unsmeltable walls and the inside covered over \nand built on like San Francisco after the 1906 quake. The oubliette and \ntunnels beneath it may not be literally and directly beneath the tower, \nbut to one side, extending down from the lowest entrance hatch.\n\nIf the ships landed in pits, then there might be only a couple feet of \ncrumbling concrete rubble in most places of the former ground level, \neasy enough to break through with the remaining bits of tech in the \nCommonwealth if it wasn't cleared away at the time the unsmeltable slabs \nwere put up." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] } ] }