{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5799", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5799, "subject": "Severian's Phraseology...", "messages": 5, "voices": 3, "first": "2010-12-04T04:42:57+00:00", "last": "2010-12-04T07:08:57+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<09971650-9298-47D5-A890-6DDE0D7901ED@liftingfaces.com>", "from": { "name": "Ryan Dunn", "address": "ryan at liftingfaces.com" }, "date": "2010-12-04T04:42:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian's Phraseology...", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Anyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective \"we\" when talking to others?\n\n\"Our memories never fade.\"\n\n\"We are going to keep this.\"\n\netc.\n\nAnd yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this.\n\nAnyone else find this peculiar?\n\n...ryan" } ] }, { "message_id": "<77F70823-FDB6-4968-9E4A-8145621C6CE8@butcherbaker.org>", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2010-12-04T05:19:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian's Phraseology...", "in_reply_to": "<09971650-9298-47D5-A890-6DDE0D7901ED@liftingfaces.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 3, 2010, at 8:42 PM, Ryan Dunn wrote:\nAnyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective \"we\" when talking to others?\n\n\"Our memories never fade.\"\n\n\"We are going to keep this.\"\n\netc.\n\nAnd yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this.\n\nAnyone else find this peculiar?\n\n...ryan\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4CF9D415.80100@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-12-04T05:39:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian's Phraseology...", "in_reply_to": "<09971650-9298-47D5-A890-6DDE0D7901ED@liftingfaces.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/3/2010 10:42 PM, Ryan Dunn wrote:\nAnyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective \"we\" when talking to others?\n\n\"Our memories never fade.\"\n\n\"We are going to keep this.\"\n\netc.\n\nAnd yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this.\n\nAnyone else find this peculiar?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As you know, Bob, it was somewhat customary for western sovereigns to do \nthis, \"we\" including the notional persons of the state, the crown, the \nroyal consort in unity, etc. and \"I\" the natural person who happens to \nhold the above positions, speaking in some lesser capacity. The Autarchy \ntakes this about as far as literally possible, the Autarch being the \nminds of hundreds of actual people hosted by the humble Commonwealther \nwho was called to that office.\n\nIt is also a clever bit of misdirection, since \"I\" occasionally becomes \nThecla the Narrator without either of them noticing." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<7BCE4D04-F59F-4654-ABA6-848F58FEF061@liftingfaces.com>", "from": { "name": "Ryan Dunn", "address": "ryan at liftingfaces.com" }, "date": "2010-12-04T06:04:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian's Phraseology...", "in_reply_to": "<4CF9D415.80100@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, he speaks with the collective voice before he is Autarch, after consuming Thecla, to my knowledge. No?\n\nI think the peculiarity is how objective Severian the Narrator is about his own condition. He is writing all of this as Autarch, with all the memories in his brain. He is able to sort them and explain their differences within his mind this way, yet in conversation he almost explicitly speaks in what I guess you would call first-person plural.\n\n...ryan" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 4, 2010, at 12:39 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nOn 12/3/2010 10:42 PM, Ryan Dunn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Anyone else wonder why Severian as Autarch consistently refers to the collective \"we\" when talking to others?\n\n\"Our memories never fade.\"\n\n\"We are going to keep this.\"\n\netc.\n\nAnd yet, Severian the Narrator, never does this.\n\nAnyone else find this peculiar?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As you know, Bob, it was somewhat customary for western sovereigns to do this, \"we\" including the notional persons of the state, the crown, the royal consort in unity, etc. and \"I\" the natural person who happens to hold the above positions, speaking in some lesser capacity. The Autarchy takes this about as far as literally possible, the Autarch being the minds of hundreds of actual people hosted by the humble Commonwealther who was called to that office.\n\nIt is also a clever bit of misdirection, since \"I\" occasionally becomes Thecla the Narrator without either of them noticing.\n\n-- \nJeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4CF9E909.90204@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-12-04T07:08:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Severian's Phraseology...", "in_reply_to": "<7BCE4D04-F59F-4654-ABA6-848F58FEF061@liftingfaces.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/4/2010 12:04 AM, Ryan Dunn wrote:\nNo, he speaks with the collective voice before he is Autarch, after consuming Thecla, to my knowledge. No?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The analeptic makes it more actual rather than notional to be multiple \npeople, though there is an identifiable point where she begins to be \nless of a separate person and more integrated." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think the peculiarity is how objective Severian the Narrator is about his own condition. He is writing all of this as Autarch, with all the memories in his brain. He is able to sort them and explain their differences within his mind this way, yet in conversation he almost explicitly speaks in what I guess you would call first-person plural." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The books are written after he's had ten years to fully integrate the \nminds...but there are still a couple of places in the ms where he begins \nwriting things from Thecla's POV without a formal transition, like when \nthey recall childhood and mentions her father's cavalry." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] } ] }