{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5819", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5819, "subject": "Father Inire theory cont (Jonas)", "messages": 4, "voices": 2, "first": "2010-12-13T22:41:16+00:00", "last": "2010-12-15T17:49:19+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2010-12-13T22:41:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Father Inire theory cont (Jonas)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn wrote:\nBut is Jonas the representative of Near Future Urth? “He is a robot built to\nserve on a starship; he may well have been carried aboard in a box along\nwith Hethor's paracoita. (Here's a thought - did Talos use bits of the\nparacoita to make Jolenta” Jonas's love explained at last!)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jonas might well never have seen Urth before his spaceship crashed there." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Jonas speaks of his childhood on Urth. He says that 'Kim Lee Soong'\nwas a common name in his youth 'in lands now lost beneath the waves'.\nAnd his exclamation 'I know where we are - on Urth', hard though it is\nto understand, seems to make most sense if he has seen it before.\n\nIt's worth remembering that the drop ceiling was installed after the\nantechamber first came into use. The idea, I think (though it isn't\nmade very clear) is that the original antechamber was just one fairly\nsmall room, and as more and more people were confined there, it became\ncombined with neighbouring rooms; the drop ceiling was then installed\nto cover the joins. So even if Jonas' first experience of a drop\nceiling was on a ship, the one he's seeing now is not the same one.\n\nOne other thing - we do know something about the ship Jonas was on.\nAfter reading a book 'I asked the ship and she gave me another'. So it\nseems the ship was run by a computer with a personality. That doesn't\nseem to fit Tzadkiel's ship, as far as I can remember. (And we know,\nof course, that computers were important during the first empire.)\n\n(I agree that Jonas has met Hethor before, and I think it likely that\nHethor was on Tzadkiel's ship during at least part of his life, but\nthey may just have met in ports from time to time, or something.)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2010-12-13T23:38:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Father Inire theory cont (Jonas)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Andrew Mason\" \nGerry Quinn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But is Jonas the representative of Near Future Urth? He is a robot built \nto\nserve on a starship; he may well have been carried aboard in a box along\nwith Hethor's paracoita. (Here's a thought - did Talos use bits of the\nparacoita to make Jolenta? Jonas's love explained at last!)\n\nJonas might well never have seen Urth before his spaceship crashed \nthere." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "[Note: as has been pointed out, by you I think, Jonas seems to have been on \na different ship from Hethor, so that paracoita theory becomes even more \ndoubtful!]" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jonas speaks of his childhood on Urth. He says that 'Kim Lee Soong'\nwas a common name in his youth 'in lands now lost beneath the waves'." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Does he actually speak of his childhood? He was a robot, after all. Still, \nI take your point that he seems to have known something of the Urth of his \nyouth." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And his exclamation 'I know where we are - on Urth', hard though it is\nto understand, seems to make most sense if he has seen it before." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That one is easy, I think. Remember, it is in the context of them having \nfound the transporter. All that matters to Jonas is that he is on the wrong \nplanet, and he's just found his ticket out." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "One other thing - we do know something about the ship Jonas was on.\nAfter reading a book 'I asked the ship and she gave me another'. So it\nseems the ship was run by a computer with a personality. That doesn't\nseem to fit Tzadkiel's ship, as far as I can remember. (And we know,\nof course, that computers were important during the first empire.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Indeed. I don't think it makes any sense to conflate Jonas's ship with \nTzadkiel's." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(I agree that Jonas has met Hethor before, and I think it likely that\nHethor was on Tzadkiel's ship during at least part of his life, but\nthey may just have met in ports from time to time, or something.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Agreed.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2010-12-14T19:25:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Father Inire theory cont (Jonas)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn wrote:\nDoes he actually speak of his childhood? ?He was a robot, after all. Still,\nI take your point that he seems to have known something of the Urth of his\nyouth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, weirdly. Severian reports that he says he was brought up by his\nparents in what he called the normal way 'though actually it is rather\nrare'. He may be lying, of course - unless he is a chemical person of\nthe _Long Sun_ kind - but even then, I think it would be easier for\nhim to invent if he had indeed been on Urth in his youth." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2010-12-15T17:49:19+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Father Inire theory cont (Jonas)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: \"Andrew Mason\" \nGerry Quinn wrote:\nDoes he actually speak of his childhood? He was a robot, after all. \nStill,\nI take your point that he seems to have known something of the Urth of \nhis\nyouth." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, weirdly. Severian reports that he says he was brought up by his\nparents in what he called the normal way 'though actually it is rather\nrare'." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It is a bit puzzling!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "He may be lying, of course - unless he is a chemical person of\nthe _Long Sun_ kind - but even then, I think it would be easier for\nhim to invent if he had indeed been on Urth in his youth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The situation with chems is a bit curious too. A male and female chem can \nbuild a child - but characters such as Marble and the soldiers, when they \ntalk about their childhood, give me the distinct impression that they were \nmass produced.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] } ] }