Subject: (urth) Father Inire theory cont (Jonas)

From: Andrew Mason <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 22:41:16 +0000

Gerry Quinn wrote:

> But is Jonas the representative of Near Future Urth? “He is a robot built to
> serve on a starship; he may well have been carried aboard in a box along
> with Hethor's paracoita. (Here's a thought - did Talos use bits of the
> paracoita to make Jolenta” Jonas's love explained at last!)

> Jonas might well never have seen Urth before his spaceship crashed there.

Jonas speaks of his childhood on Urth. He says that 'Kim Lee Soong'
was a common name in his youth 'in lands now lost beneath the waves'.
And his exclamation 'I know where we are - on Urth', hard though it is
to understand, seems to make most sense if he has seen it before.

It's worth remembering that the drop ceiling was installed after the
antechamber first came into use. The idea, I think (though it isn't
made very clear) is that the original antechamber was just one fairly
small room, and as more and more people were confined there, it became
combined with neighbouring rooms; the drop ceiling was then installed
to cover the joins. So even if Jonas' first experience of a drop
ceiling was on a ship, the one he's seeing now is not the same one.

One other thing - we do know something about the ship Jonas was on.
After reading a book 'I asked the ship and she gave me another'. So it
seems the ship was run by a computer with a personality. That doesn't
seem to fit Tzadkiel's ship, as far as I can remember. (And we know,
of course, that computers were important during the first empire.)

(I agree that Jonas has met Hethor before, and I think it likely that
Hethor was on Tzadkiel's ship during at least part of his life, but
they may just have met in ports from time to time, or something.)

---

From: Gerry Quinn <gerryq at indigo.ie>
Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2010 23:38:03 +0000

From: "Andrew Mason" <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com>

> > But is Jonas the representative of Near Future Urth? He is a robot built 
> > to
> > paracoita to make Jolenta? Jonas's love explained at last!)
> >

[Note: as has been pointed out, by you I think, Jonas seems to have been on 
a different ship from Hethor, so that paracoita theory becomes even more 
doubtful!]

> was a common name in his youth 'in lands now lost beneath the waves'.

Does he actually speak of his childhood?  He was a robot, after all. Still, 
I take your point that he seems to have known something of the Urth of his 
youth.

> to understand, seems to make most sense if he has seen it before.

That one is easy, I think.  Remember, it is in the context of them having 
found the transporter.  All that matters to Jonas is that he is on the wrong 
planet, and he's just found his ticket out.

> of course, that computers were important during the first empire.)

Indeed.  I don't think it makes any sense to conflate Jonas's ship with 
Tzadkiel's.

> they may just have met in ports from time to time, or something.)

Agreed.

- Gerry Quinn

---

From: Andrew Mason <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2010 19:25:58 +0000

Gerry Quinn wrote:

> Does he actually speak of his childhood? ?He was a robot, after all. Still,

Yes, weirdly. Severian reports that he says he was brought up by his
parents in what he called the normal way 'though actually it is rather
rare'. He may be lying, of course - unless he is a chemical person of
the _Long Sun_ kind - but even then, I think it would be easier for
him to invent if he had indeed been on Urth in his youth.

---

From: Gerry Quinn <gerryq at indigo.ie>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 17:49:19 +0000

> rare'.

It is a bit puzzling!

> He may be lying, of course - unless he is a chemical person of

The situation with chems is a bit curious too.  A male and female chem can 
build a child - but characters such as Marble and the soldiers, when they 
talk about their childhood, give me the distinct impression that they were 
mass produced.

- Gerry Quinn