# Father Inire theory cont (Jonas) *The Urth list — 4 messages, 2 voices, 13 Dec 2010* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Andrew Mason *13 Dec 2010, 22:41* > Gerry Quinn wrote: > But is Jonas the representative of Near Future Urth? “He is a robot built to > serve on a starship; he may well have been carried aboard in a box along > with Hethor's paracoita. (Here's a thought - did Talos use bits of the > paracoita to make Jolenta” Jonas's love explained at last!) > Jonas might well never have seen Urth before his spaceship crashed there. Jonas speaks of his childhood on Urth. He says that 'Kim Lee Soong' was a common name in his youth 'in lands now lost beneath the waves'. And his exclamation 'I know where we are - on Urth', hard though it is to understand, seems to make most sense if he has seen it before. It's worth remembering that the drop ceiling was installed after the antechamber first came into use. The idea, I think (though it isn't made very clear) is that the original antechamber was just one fairly small room, and as more and more people were confined there, it became combined with neighbouring rooms; the drop ceiling was then installed to cover the joins. So even if Jonas' first experience of a drop ceiling was on a ship, the one he's seeing now is not the same one. One other thing - we do know something about the ship Jonas was on. After reading a book 'I asked the ship and she gave me another'. So it seems the ship was run by a computer with a personality. That doesn't seem to fit Tzadkiel's ship, as far as I can remember. (And we know, of course, that computers were important during the first empire.) (I agree that Jonas has met Hethor before, and I think it likely that Hethor was on Tzadkiel's ship during at least part of his life, but they may just have met in ports from time to time, or something.) --- ### Gerry Quinn *13 Dec 2010, 23:38 · in reply to Andrew Mason* > From: "Andrew Mason" > Gerry Quinn wrote: >> But is Jonas the representative of Near Future Urth? He is a robot built >> to >> serve on a starship; he may well have been carried aboard in a box along >> with Hethor's paracoita. (Here's a thought - did Talos use bits of the >> paracoita to make Jolenta? Jonas's love explained at last!) >> >> Jonas might well never have seen Urth before his spaceship crashed >> there. [Note: as has been pointed out, by you I think, Jonas seems to have been on a different ship from Hethor, so that paracoita theory becomes even more doubtful!] > Jonas speaks of his childhood on Urth. He says that 'Kim Lee Soong' > was a common name in his youth 'in lands now lost beneath the waves'. Does he actually speak of his childhood? He was a robot, after all. Still, I take your point that he seems to have known something of the Urth of his youth. > And his exclamation 'I know where we are - on Urth', hard though it is > to understand, seems to make most sense if he has seen it before. That one is easy, I think. Remember, it is in the context of them having found the transporter. All that matters to Jonas is that he is on the wrong planet, and he's just found his ticket out. > One other thing - we do know something about the ship Jonas was on. > After reading a book 'I asked the ship and she gave me another'. So it > seems the ship was run by a computer with a personality. That doesn't > seem to fit Tzadkiel's ship, as far as I can remember. (And we know, > of course, that computers were important during the first empire.) Indeed. I don't think it makes any sense to conflate Jonas's ship with Tzadkiel's. > (I agree that Jonas has met Hethor before, and I think it likely that > Hethor was on Tzadkiel's ship during at least part of his life, but > they may just have met in ports from time to time, or something.) Agreed. - Gerry Quinn --- ### Andrew Mason *14 Dec 2010, 19:25 · follows Gerry Quinn* > Gerry Quinn wrote: > Does he actually speak of his childhood? ?He was a robot, after all. Still, > I take your point that he seems to have known something of the Urth of his > youth. Yes, weirdly. Severian reports that he says he was brought up by his parents in what he called the normal way 'though actually it is rather rare'. He may be lying, of course - unless he is a chemical person of the _Long Sun_ kind - but even then, I think it would be easier for him to invent if he had indeed been on Urth in his youth. --- ### Gerry Quinn *15 Dec 2010, 17:49 · in reply to Andrew Mason* >> From: "Andrew Mason" >> Gerry Quinn wrote: >> Does he actually speak of his childhood? He was a robot, after all. >> Still, >> I take your point that he seems to have known something of the Urth of >> his >> youth. > Yes, weirdly. Severian reports that he says he was brought up by his > parents in what he called the normal way 'though actually it is rather > rare'. It is a bit puzzling! > He may be lying, of course - unless he is a chemical person of > the _Long Sun_ kind - but even then, I think it would be easier for > him to invent if he had indeed been on Urth in his youth. The situation with chems is a bit curious too. A male and female chem can build a child - but characters such as Marble and the soldiers, when they talk about their childhood, give me the distinct impression that they were mass produced. - Gerry Quinn ---