{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5824", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5824, "subject": "Faterh Inire Theor cont.", "messages": 6, "voices": 4, "first": "2010-12-15T18:46:27+00:00", "last": "2010-12-15T21:28:27+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-12-15T18:46:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff- Here's the main point: the House Absolute and the antechamber are partly \nbased on the palace of the Sun King at Versailles, the very pinnacle of ornamental aristocratic \nuselessness." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI like this comparison. House Absolute is surely mostly a palace, rather than a castle or \ngovernment building. Still we must remember that what we plebians consider useless, the\naristocrats might find essential. We don't house Obama in a utilitarian split-level ranch \nwith two car garage ;- ). The ornaments serve their purpose, in that sub-culture. We see them\nduplicated in so many other palaces, so they must." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn- There may be some resemblances to Versailles, particularly in that the House \nAbsolute was intended as a seat of government away from the capital, and that it grew slowly \nover a long period with many changes and alterations. There are some differences too; the House \nAbsolute is built underground." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nGood observations also. The Versailles palace is built up on a hill while House Absolute seems\nto be built beneath a flat area of ground, suitable for gardens and theaters and meandering \nstreams." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "it contains a secret second house, and it appears toi extend all the way to Nessus." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nWell, I suppose we can't know for sure if Versailles has such secrets. Also I think it is \nimportant to not take the extension of House Absolute to Nessus as a literal, physical reality.\nWe have suggestions that certain parts of Nessus extend to House Absolute but these are special\nplaces like the Library, the Art Gallery and the House Azure. I suspect the Botanic Garden has a\nsimilar connection as it also is associated in some manner with Father Inire and the Autarchy.\n \nI don't think we are meant to think decrepit old Rudesind walked roughly the same distance\nunderground that Severian travelled above ground from the Citadel to House Absolute. Severian seems\nsurprised to find him there, anyway. For me, some sort of transporter device is implied to connect\nportions of these two locations. Thus the purpose of all the text speculation on how the khaibit \nprostitutes manage to get to Nessus and back so quickly and without carrying baggage. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<35ea4a3db50f3713f5060a80793d4655.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2010-12-15T19:09:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "We don't house Obama in a utilitarian\nsplit-level ranch\nwith two car garage ;- )." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I don't think we are meant to think decrepit old Rudesind walked roughly\nthe same distance\nunderground that Severian travelled above ground from the Citadel to House\nAbsolute. Severian seems\nsurprised to find him there, anyway. For me, some sort of transporter\ndevice is implied to connect\nportions of these two locations. Thus the purpose of all the text\nspeculation on how the khaibit\nprostitutes manage to get to Nessus and back so quickly and without\ncarrying baggage." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The White House has numerous tunnels giving underground access to the\nproperty, and so it would be unusual for there to be no access between the\nage-old seat of government and the \"Old Port\". As for dainty prostitutes\nand decrepit curators making the trip, there could be any number of\nconveyances from ancient golf carts, Typhonian boats, a literal\nunderground railroad, all the way up to one of Inire's time tunnels. Which\nthere might well be, perhaps disguised as part of the Botanic Gardens." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-12-15T19:58:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.", "in_reply_to": "<35ea4a3db50f3713f5060a80793d4655.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Jeff Wilson- The White House has numerous tunnels giving underground access to the property." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nOkay, but do they take weeks or months of walking to traverse? A bit unwieldy." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "As for dainty prostitutes and decrepit curators making the trip, there could be any number of\nconveyances from ancient golf carts, Typhonian boats, a literal underground railroad, all the \nway up to one of Inire's time tunnels. Which there might well be, perhaps disguised as part of \nthe Botanic Gardens." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "We also see a portal in Tzadkiel's ship. Severian notes that it resembles those of Father Inire \nbut is superior in quality. Why walk or ride a golf cart or flier if you have a portal? \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<91992.81826.qm@web84107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "DAVID STOCKHOFF", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-12-15T20:43:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There's a contradiction here. Since no one can see the House Absolute, it cannot serve as an ornament to the regime. It is useless in that regard as well, though nobles could visit.\nVersailles was certainly an ornament. The House is partly a parody of Versailles because it is underground. However, Versailles as a whole is so huge, with its great vistas of lawn and fountain, that no one could see it who was not invited or who worked there. So it was in a way invisible too.\nAt any rate, I have to say again: it is the aristocrats who are shown as useless. Not the House itself.\n\n--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Lee Berman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Lee Berman \nSubject: (urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nDate: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 1:46 PM\nDavid Stockhoff- Here's the main point: the House Absolute and the antechamber are partly \nbased on the palace of the Sun King at Versailles, the very pinnacle of ornamental aristocratic \nuselessness." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI like this comparison. House Absolute is surely mostly a palace, rather than a castle or \ngovernment building. Still we must remember that what we plebians consider useless, the\naristocrats might find essential. We don't house Obama in a utilitarian split-level ranch \nwith two car garage ;- ). The ornaments serve their purpose, in that sub-culture. We see them\nduplicated in so many other palaces, so they must." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn- There may be some resemblances to Versailles, particularly in that the House \nAbsolute was intended as a seat of government away from the capital, and that it grew slowly \nover a long period with many changes and alterations. There are some differences too; the House \nAbsolute is built underground." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nGood observations also. The Versailles palace is built up on a hill while House Absolute seems\nto be built beneath a flat area of ground, suitable for gardens and theaters and meandering \nstreams." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "it contains a secret second house, and it appears toi extend all the way to Nessus." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nWell, I suppose we can't know for sure if Versailles has such secrets. Also I think it is \nimportant to not take the extension of House Absolute to Nessus as a literal, physical reality.\nWe have suggestions that certain parts of Nessus extend to House Absolute but these are special\nplaces like the Library, the Art Gallery and the House Azure. I suspect the Botanic Garden has a\nsimilar connection as it also is associated in some manner with Father Inire and the Autarchy.\n \nI don't think we are meant to think decrepit old Rudesind walked roughly the same distance\nunderground that Severian travelled above ground from the Citadel to House Absolute. Severian seems\nsurprised to find him there, anyway. For me, some sort of transporter device is implied to connect\nportions of these two locations. Thus the purpose of all the text speculation on how the khaibit \nprostitutes manage to get to Nessus and back so quickly and without carrying baggage. ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? " } ] }, { "message_id": "<50147E3A-0064-4733-89D8-877A98B53816@butcherbaker.org>", "from": { "name": "Son of Witz", "address": "sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org" }, "date": "2010-12-15T21:15:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.", "in_reply_to": "<91992.81826.qm@web84107.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 15, 2010, at 12:43 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:\nThere's a contradiction here. Since no one can see the House Absolute, it cannot serve as an ornament to the regime. It is useless in that regard as well, though nobles could visit.\n\nVersailles was certainly an ornament. The House is partly a parody of Versailles because it is underground. However, Versailles as a whole is so huge, with its great vistas of lawn and fountain, that no one could see it who was not invited or who worked there. So it was in a way invisible too.\n\nAt any rate, I have to say again: it is the aristocrats who are shown as useless. Not the House itself." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm not sure about that. Plenty of exultants, armigers, cacogens, and entertainers seem to find their way to the grounds of the House Absolute." } ] }, { "message_id": "<226949.74430.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "DAVID STOCKHOFF", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2010-12-15T21:28:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.", "in_reply_to": "<50147E3A-0064-4733-89D8-877A98B53816@butcherbaker.org>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm trying to convey a very basic point.\nVersailles is an unparalleled example of the use of landscaping---yes, LANDSCAPING---to project power. Landscaping performed according to principles derived from fortress design, and vice versa. Landscaping that takes into account sweeping fields of fire so that all approaches are covered and conversely the Palace looms in all directions.\nThe House has landscaping, and perhaps if hiddenness is power then it projects power by hiding the House if everyone knows it's there. But otherwise not. It's just a pleasure park where drunk people drift in paddleboats with their lovers. The Autarch himself is never seen as such: no parades, no speeches, nothing. He is an absence; so is the House except to those allowed within.\n\n--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Son of Witz wrote:\n\nFrom: Son of Witz \nSubject: Re: (urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 4:15 PM" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Dec 15, 2010, at 12:43 PM, DAVID STOCKHOFF wrote:\nThere's a contradiction here. Since no one can see the House Absolute, it cannot serve as an ornament to the regime. It is useless in that regard as well, though nobles could visit.\n\nVersailles was certainly an ornament. The House is partly a parody of Versailles because it is underground. However, Versailles as a whole is so huge, with its great vistas of lawn and fountain, that no one could see it who was not invited or who worked there. So it was in a way invisible too.\n\nAt any rate, I have to say again: it is the aristocrats who are shown as useless. Not the House itself." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm not sure about that. Plenty of exultants, armigers, cacogens, and entertainers seem to find their way to the grounds of the House Absolute." } ] } ] }