Subject: (urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.

From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 18:46:27 +0000

>David Stockhoff- Here's the main point: the House Absolute and the antechamber are partly 
>based on the palace of the Sun King at Versailles, the very pinnacle of ornamental aristocratic 
>uselessness.
 
I like this comparison. House Absolute is surely mostly a palace, rather than a castle or 
government building. Still we must remember that what we plebians consider useless, the
aristocrats might find essential. We don't house Obama in a utilitarian split-level ranch 
with two car garage ;- ). The ornaments serve their purpose, in that sub-culture. We see them
duplicated in so many other palaces, so they must.

>Gerry Quinn- There may be some resemblances to Versailles, particularly in that the House 
>Absolute was intended as a seat of government away from the capital, and that it grew slowly 
>over a long period with many changes and alterations. There are some differences too; the House 
>Absolute is built underground.
 
Good observations also. The Versailles palace is built up on a hill while House Absolute seems
to be built beneath a flat area of ground, suitable for gardens and theaters and meandering 
streams.

>it contains a secret second house, and it appears toi extend all the way to Nessus.
 
Well, I suppose we can't know for sure if Versailles has such secrets. Also I think it is 
important to not take the extension of House Absolute to Nessus as a literal, physical reality.
We have suggestions that certain parts of Nessus extend to House Absolute but these are special
places like the Library, the Art Gallery and the House Azure. I suspect the Botanic Garden has a
similar connection as it also is associated in some manner with Father Inire and the Autarchy.
 
I don't think we are meant to think decrepit old Rudesind walked roughly the same distance
underground that Severian travelled above ground from the Citadel to House Absolute. Severian seems
surprised to find him there, anyway.  For me, some sort of transporter device is implied to connect
portions of these two locations. Thus the purpose of all the text speculation on how the khaibit 
prostitutes manage to get to Nessus and back so quickly and without carrying baggage.

---

From: Jeff Wilson <jwilson at io.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:09:46 +0000

> We don't house Obama in a utilitarian
> split-level ranch
> with two car garage ;- ).

> prostitutes manage to get to Nessus and back so quickly and without

The White House has numerous tunnels giving underground access to the
property, and so it would be unusual for there to be no access between the
age-old seat of government and the "Old Port". As for dainty prostitutes
and decrepit curators making the trip, there could be any number of
conveyances from ancient golf carts, Typhonian boats, a literal
underground railroad, all the way up to one of Inire's time tunnels. Which
there might well be, perhaps disguised as part of the Botanic Gardens.

---

From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 19:58:52 +0000

>Jeff Wilson- The White House has numerous tunnels giving underground access to the property.
 
Okay, but do they take weeks or months of walking to traverse? A bit unwieldy.
 
>As for dainty prostitutes and decrepit curators making the trip, there could be any number of
>conveyances from ancient golf carts, Typhonian boats, a literal underground railroad, all the 
>way up to one of Inire's time tunnels. Which there might well be, perhaps disguised as part of 
>the Botanic Gardens.

We also see a portal in Tzadkiel's ship. Severian notes that it resembles those of Father Inire 
but is superior in quality. Why walk or ride a golf cart or flier if you have a portal?

---

From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 20:43:24 +0000

There's a contradiction here. Since no one can see the House Absolute, it cannot serve as an ornament to the regime. It is useless in that regard as well, though nobles could visit.
Versailles was certainly an ornament. The House is partly a parody of Versailles because it is underground. However, Versailles as a whole is so huge, with its great vistas of lawn and fountain, that no one could see it who was not invited or who worked there. So it was in a way invisible too.
At any rate, I have to say again: it is the aristocrats who are shown as useless. Not the House itself.

--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com> wrote:

From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>
Subject: (urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.
To: urth at lists.urth.net
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 1:46 PM

 

 
I don't think we are meant to think decrepit old Rudesind walked roughly the same distance
underground that Severian travelled above ground from the Citadel to House Absolute. Severian seems
surprised to find him there, anyway. For me, some sort of transporter device is implied to connect
portions of these two locations. Thus the purpose of all the text speculation on how the khaibit 
prostitutes manage to get to Nessus and back so quickly and without carrying baggage. ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ? 
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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:15:23 +0000

> At any rate, I have to say again: it is the aristocrats who are shown as useless. Not the House itself.

I'm not sure about that. Plenty of exultants, armigers, cacogens, and entertainers seem to find their way to the grounds of the House Absolute.

---

From: DAVID STOCKHOFF <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2010 21:28:27 +0000

I'm trying to convey a very basic point.
Versailles is an unparalleled example of the use of landscaping---yes, LANDSCAPING---to project power. Landscaping performed according to principles derived from fortress design, and vice versa. Landscaping that takes into account sweeping fields of fire so that all approaches are covered and conversely the Palace looms in all directions.
The House has landscaping, and perhaps if hiddenness is power then it projects power by hiding the House if everyone knows it's there. But otherwise not. It's just a pleasure park where drunk people drift in paddleboats with their lovers. The Autarch himself is never seen as such: no parades, no speeches, nothing. He is an absence; so is the House except to those allowed within.

--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Son of Witz <Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org> wrote:

From: Son of Witz <Sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Subject: Re: (urth) Faterh Inire Theor cont.
To: "The Urth Mailing List" <urth at lists.urth.net>
Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 4:15 PM

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