{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5834",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 5834,
    "subject": "(no subject)",
    "messages": 1,
    "voices": 1,
    "first": "2010-12-16T19:42:27+00:00",
    "last": "2010-12-16T19:42:27+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<SNT123-W398B0559C5E5D4E231B40CCF150@phx.gbl>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Lee Berman",
        "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com"
      },
      "date": "2010-12-16T19:42:27+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) (no subject)",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "David Stockhoff- Urth phase: Much like the Old Testament. (No offense to Jews of course.)"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": " \nNone taken from this former one, anyway. The Old Testament is a cesspool of genocide all in the\nname of the Chosen People. Joshua was as merciless and bloodthirsty as any conqueror in history.  \nHappen to have the bad luck of being an Egyptian? Too bad, locusts and frogs in your yard, boils on\nyour skin then your oldest son dies. I can remember being 8 years old and thinking \"Damn, God is a real\n*******!. Pharaoah wants to let the Hebrews go but every time he tries, God hardens his heart. WTF is the\nguy supposed to do?\""
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Next phase: Future iterations build on the improvements of our universe. \nWith each universe bound to get a Christ, they just get better. Thus the \nuniverses progress toward an inevitable merging with God."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "That's the impression I get. Might have been the basis for my Wolfe-as-Heretic thread. Jesus Christ is\nbetter, less of a torturer, than Severian. But the next universe might get someone even better. Maybe \nJesus v.2 will stop the wickedness of the moneychangers in the Temple with a simple word or two and a \ngentle hand to the shoulder instead of a whip."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Gerry Quinn- We do see evidence for Jesus in the text"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": " \nNot by name. Nor do we see any significant whiff of Salvation, indicating a Jesus Christ. This point has\nbeen made too many times already by David and me."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Gene Wolfe certainly likes to throw in gnostic names and concepts (and names and concepts from \nmany other sources) - but Christian concepts are everywhere too, even if not always mentioned by name."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": " \nMany think names are extremely important in the work of Gene Wolfe. By dismissing named characters and\nphilosophies and elevating non-named vaguely addressed characters and philosophies you are imposing your \nown worldview on the text. \n \nIt is okay, to do this. That's what Peter Wright does with his atheistic interpretation of BotNS. But I think\nit is good to acknowledge one's own bias and viewpoint when interpreting from a \"self\" point of view."
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "it is always a leap to assume that absence of evidence constitutes evidence of absence."
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": " \nWise words to consider when people start discussing their intuitive theories. Good to recognize that when you\naccuse others of making an \"unlikely leap\" you are in the process of leaping yourself.\n \n \n \n \n  \t\t \t   \t\t  "
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}