Subject: (urth) (No subject)

From: Andrew Mason <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:30:49 +0000

Lee Berman wrote:

. Since I am not a Christian or religious, it didn't
> bother me to think that Severian and the story I treasure was not in a Judeo-Christian universe.

It depends, I think, what we mean by saying that it's not a
Judaeo-Christian universe. A universe without a saviour? It may be;
I'm not committed on that. But if we (as Christians) believe in
universes without a saviour in them, that is because the saving power
of the Christ in this world extends to them. A universe not made - or
caused, at least indirectly - by the Judaeo-Christian God? I find it
very hard to believe that Wolfe would conceive of that. (I mean, he
might well think 'Suppose God as we know him did not exist, but a
completely different kind of first principle did'. But I don't think
he would imagine that within a cycle of universes some of which are
made by the Judaeo-Christian God, others are not.  God, if he exists
at all, is all-embracing.)

It seems to be a running theme of the _Sun_ cycle that while there are
many beings that can be called gods, there is one true God; and that
God is often imagined in Christian terms (though I agree he is
imagined in pagan terms as well).

The presence of other gods (in some sense) does not count against
this, I think, because Wolfe believes in the existence of pagan gods
within this universe, which is made by the Judaeo-Christian God.

 I'm not too political but I am rabidly anti-torture and generally averse to
> parasitic exploitation of humans by other humans in the manner of chatelaines-khaibits. So, distancing myself
> from Urth isn't so difficult at all, for me.

But can we distance ourselves from Urth? Torture exists in our world.
If kahibits don't, it's just because we don't have the technology;
exploitation of women, in various forms, does. The Commonwealth is a
pretty nasty place in many ways, but is it worse than Nazi Germany or
Stalinist Russia? I think this is just the inherent corruption of
humanity, not a sign of a godless world.

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From: David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:55:07 +0000

Andrew, I think the theology and the text converge on these points. 
Thanks for putting it so well.

On 12/17/2010 7:30 AM, Andrew Mason wrote:
> It seems to be a running theme of the_Sun_  cycle that while there are

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From: Son of Witz <sonofwitz at butcherbaker.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:15:58 +0000

On Dec 17, 2010, at 4:30 AM, Andrew Mason <andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com> wrote:

> _______________________________________________

Excellent!