{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5846", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5846, "subject": "Dionysus, Mausoleum", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2010-12-21T13:35:40+00:00", "last": "2010-12-21T23:39:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2010-12-21T13:35:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dionysus, Mausoleum", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Jane: Sev loathes Typhon and kills him at the first opportunity." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Forgot to address this. Often, in legends and life, familial hate is the deepest kind.\n \nI used to find Typhon completely loathesome also. I think James' association of him to\nAlexander (and Spring Wind) has expanded my vistas on him recently.\n \nWe can understand Severian hating Typhon. He threatened his life and would enslave The \nConciliator. But if Typhon is like Alexander perhaps he has some admirable traits as did\nAlexander/Spring Wind in younger years.\n \nTyphon wants to elevate and unite humanity. He wants to vanquish the demonic beings in \nthe oceans. He wants to make Severian his second-in-command. His beating of Severian\nwasn't really life-threatening, just an echo of Severian's beating of Eata. Typhon may\nbe a sexually perverted megalomaniac but perhaps he isn't all bad?\n \nFWIW, I think Severian was deliberately set upon a path to resurrect Dorcas, resurrect\nTyphon, defeat Baldanders, etc. But more than once force is manipulating the outcomes of\nthese events. The more powerful one is working toward the New Sun and succeeds. But the \npurpose of the less powerful, Urthly, force is there to be detected also.\n \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<884048.55968.qm@web58203.mail.re3.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2010-12-21T14:43:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dionysus, Mausoleum", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Lee, just wanted to point out that in the snipets I quoted below, as far as New Sun is concerned, it is very hard to look beneath to see anything beneficial or benevolent in Typhon's?motives because of the very clear Satan tempting Jesus in the desert imagery. Kneel before me, and all that you see will be yours. That scene is almost directly ripped from the bible in what Typhon says and what he offers Severian, so to say he doesn't seem all bad can only come from Long Sun.\n\nThe Satanic reference is so heavy handed its almost plagiarism throwing in two heads and an elevator car. In addition, this is the scene in the bible where Satan directly tries to stop Jesus from the ministry that will culminate in earthly salvation, the most direct attack of his sinister temptations to be seen probably anywhere. The clear parallel is that if Sev failed here, he fails forever.\n\nmarc\n\n--- On Tue, 12/21/10, Lee Berman wrote:\n\n\n\nForgot to address this. Often, in legends and life, familial hate is the deepest kind.\n\nI used to find Typhon completely loathesome also. I think James' association of him to\nAlexander (and Spring Wind) has expanded my vistas on him recently.\n\n...\nTyphon wants to elevate and unite humanity. He wants to vanquish the demonic beings in \nthe oceans. He wants to make Severian his second-in-command. His beating of Severian\nwasn't really life-threatening, just an echo of Severian's beating of Eata. Typhon may\nbe a sexually perverted megalomaniac but perhaps he isn't all bad?\n\n.... “The more powerful one is working toward the New Sun and succeeds. But the \npurpose of the less powerful, Urthly, force is there to be detected also.\n?”????????????????????????? " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2010-12-21T23:39:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Dionysus, Mausoleum", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 8:35 AM, Lee Berman wrote:\nForgot to address this. Often, in legends and life, familial hate is the deepest kind." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't really have a point to this; I simply like the quote and think\nit germane:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"It seems she was born first:\nYou have bloodily approv'd the ancient truth,\nThat kindred commonly do worse agree\nThan remote strangers.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "--Bosola, in response to Ferdinand. Act 4, Sc. 2; _The Tragedy of the\nDutchesse of Malfy_*, John Webster\n\n* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Duchess_of_Malfi" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern\nhttp://www.gwern.net" } ] } ] }