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Gerry Quinn wrote:
But the passage that identifies Mamelta with Kypris and Kypris's mother also says that the Outsider is a toy dancer and the water is a polished toy-top. “We cannot take the last part literally, so surely it is reasonable not to take the first literally either”
Well. I definitely agree not everything in Silk's dreams should be taken literally. He identifies Mint with Marble and Rose, Mucor with the prelate of his schola, etc. Part of this surely has to be explained in terms of Silk's psychology. But it would be totally Wolfean to slip in some clues along the way. This is,after all, a world (whorl?) where dreams sometimes come from the gods. So while 'it says it, so it must be true' is not in itself conclusive, that's not to say it can never be literally true.
But I think that a lot of what goes on here does have a fairly straightforward psychological explanation, namely that his contact with Kypris is leading to his sexual awakening, so literal readings aren't essential.
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What you say about Pas's desire for an heir underlying the struggle in Mainframe is new to me. ?As I understood it, the struggle in Mainframe is between Pas's desire to fulfil his original colonisation plan, and Echidna's desire to keep her congregation on board the Whorl.
Agreed - I don't think we are ever told very clearly what the source of the struggle was, but the nearest we get to an answer, from Quetzal (some people love things so much they want to keep them caged, and other people love things so much they want to set them free) supports your reading. (Of course, Quetzal may be lying. One might well think nothing is more likely. But I would like to know more about the specific reasons reasons for another reading.)
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Indeed, one might argue that on Urth as well as in the Whorl, Pas has hit upon a solution to his undoubted desire for a male heir - he has decided to become immortal!
We are told he wanted an heir. And Scylla, after explaining about the birth of Echidna's children, goes on to say 'and then - ' at which point she is interrrupted. So there is something going on here that we don't know about. I agree this is a bit hard to fit in with the immortality thing.
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[As for the creepiness or otherwise of a man looking up a woman's loins, I'm not sure how her being his mother would improve matters!]
Lack of creepiness is not an advantage of this theory (though you may not think it's desirable), since Kypris seems definitely to be taking a sexual interest in Silk, first through Hyacinth, and then by inviting him to be with her in Mainframe. And unlike Dorcas with Severian, she presumably knows about their relationship. (That the scene with Mamelta recalls Dorcas and Severian I agree.)
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Now I can imagine that after some falling out, Urth-Typhon decided it would be fun to play a nasty little joke on Pas and Kypris, the punchline of which wouldn't be revealed for 200 years or more. “But if he did this, he would most certainly not wipe her memories! ?Where would the fun be in that”
It's possible, I guess, that Echidna made Urth-Typhon get rid of her at the physical level, at the same time as he was plotting to take her with him at the virtual level. So on relflection, I don't think this is unworkable (though it's not what our other knowledge of Pas and Kypris would immediately suggest).