{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/589", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 589, "subject": "Suzanne Delange", "messages": 4, "voices": 2, "first": "1998-05-11T09:08:00+00:00", "last": "1998-05-11T13:35:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Craig Christensen", "address": "2644 at mn3.lawson.lawson.com" }, "date": "1998-05-11T09:08:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Suzanne Delange", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "After reading Suzanne Delange I looked for Spanish Influenza information, \nto date when the characters were in high school. Of course I was \nsurprised to learn that the Spanish Influenza occurred in 1918 during the \nfirst World War. This certainly doesn't seem to be the correct period \nfor the characters' high school years. Interestingly, several sites made \nthe observation that the epidemic has been almost completely wiped from \nthe world's memory.\n\nI took this quote from \nhttp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/amex/influenza/trackers.html. Perhaps the \nquote by Mencken is the very quote that sparked the short story.\n\n(quote) Those learning for the first time of the devastating consequences \nof the worldwide 1918 Spanish influenza epidemic--or pandemic--typically \nrespond with two questions: How could they have never heard of a \nworld-wide scourge that killed upwards of 30 million people? And, could \nit happen again?\n\n Addressing the first question, journalist H.L. Mencken, offered this \ntheory in 1956: \"The epidemic is seldom mentioned, and most Americans \nhave apparently forgotten it. This is not surprising. The human mind \nalways tries to expunge the untolerable from memory, just as it tries to \nconceal it while current.\"(end-quote)\n\nI think that the mention of the Spanish Influenza is a major clue to the \nnature of the story. The narrator has forgotten knowing Suzanne in the \npast; he hasn't simply failed to meet her. And his relationship with her \nwas not minor, it was consequential.\n\nI am willing to concede that the young lady may not be the narrator's \ndaughter, but I still like the idea.\n\nI have two questions for the group. First, what is the reference to \nHamlet? And second, why the long rambling description of quilt \ncollecting? In such a compact story it must have significance." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Peter Westlake", "address": "peter at harlequin.co.uk" }, "date": "1998-05-11T13:35:51+00:00", "subject": "Re: (urth) Suzanne Delange", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "At 09:08 1998-05-11 -0500, Craig Christensen wrote:\n..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I think that the mention of the Spanish Influenza is a major clue to the \nnature of the story. The narrator has forgotten knowing Suzanne in the \npast; he hasn't simply failed to meet her. And his relationship with her \nwas not minor, it was consequential." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The fact that everyone has forgotten that flu epidemic is certainly\nvery suggestive. At the very least it's a nice coincidence, and\na great find - thanks!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I am willing to concede that the young lady may not be the narrator's \ndaughter, but I still like the idea.\n\nI have two questions for the group. First, what is the reference to \nHamlet? And second, why the long rambling description of quilt \ncollecting? In such a compact story it must have significance." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Hamlet, at least, is easy:\n\n \"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,\n Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.\"\n\n(Taken from the first copy of the text that came to hand, at\n).\nIt's a very well-known quote (no offense!), hence \"Hamlet's hackneyed precept\".\n\nI wondered about the quilts too. Misdirection? Some very subtle clue?\nThey connect with the late eighteenth century, but I don't know what\nto make of that, if anything.\n\nPeter.\n\nPeter Westlake, Harlequin Ltd, Barrington Hall, Barrington, Cambs CB2 5RG." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Craig Christensen", "address": "2644 at mn3.lawson.lawson.com" }, "date": "1998-05-11T12:42:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Suzanne Delange", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Peter," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The Hamlet, at least, is easy:\n\n\"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,\n Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.\"\n\n(Taken from the first copy of the text that came to hand, at\n).\nIt's a very well-known quote (no offense!), hence \"Hamlet's hackneyed \nprecept\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "None taken. Yes, it is a very well-known quote, even to me. But, aren't \nthere many familiar quotes from Hamlet? I haven't read the play for a \ncouple of years and didn't make the effort to check it myself. I guess \nbecause I was so taken with the notion that forgetting was central to the \nstory, I was trying to recall a quote about memory. Just for fun I \nsearched hamlet.txt for \"memory\" and came upon this quote,\n\n Remember thee?\n Yea, from the table of my memory\n I'll wipe away all trivial fond records,\n All saws of books, all forms, all pressures past...\n\nThere were other hits on \"memory\", but not quotes by Hamlet. It is taken \nout of context, and I don't know if it is familiar enough to be \n\"hackneyed\". Kind of interesting though, huh? I should search for \n\"forget\", too." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I wondered about the quilts too. Misdirection? Some very subtle clue?\nThey connect with the late eighteenth century, but I don't know what\nto make of that, if anything." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This was exactly what I was thinking. I sometimes think Wolfe is like a \nstage magician, drawing your eye away from the truth in a scene with \ninteresting, but less essential action and dialogue." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Craig Christensen", "address": "2644 at mn3.lawson.lawson.com" }, "date": "1998-05-11T13:13:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Suzanne Delange", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Adam," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The girl he sees isn't his own daughter--I can't see the narrator as \nbeing in his early thirties-" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thank-you for the thorough explanation of this short story. You have \nconvinced me with simple math that the narrator is not the father of the \nyoung lady at the end.\n\nAlga," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The flavor of regret is bittersweet." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, I thought that the overall tone of the story was \"regret\".\n\nWilliam," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "What TBotNS really needs (for scholarly purposes anyway) is a thorough, \ncomprehensive and intelligently designed index." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The same thought occurred to me as I read through the archives. I had \nthe thought that if a scholarly member of the group devised a format, \nthen other members could submit summaries of chapters as they re-read \nthem. They could include characters, settings, new ideas presented, \nreoccurring themes, vocabulary, limited quotations, etc. Done as a \ngroup, you Wolfe scholars should be able to produce a searchable \nreference document in a short time. Count me in.\n\nCraig" } ] } ] }