{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5916", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5916, "subject": "(no subject)", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2011-01-18T02:50:39+00:00", "last": "2011-01-19T05:32:24+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-18T02:50:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) (no subject)", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gwern Branwen: >> Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_ I love the book. I hate the racism. And I think \nyou can have it both ways in the realm of fiction and art. There's no contradiction there.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nMade me think of Huckleberry Finn and how there is a strong movement to require schools to carry a\nversion which finds a less offensive term than \"nigger\" (the N-word) which is repeated over 100 times\nin the story. To me that move would suck the life out of the book. It was a book about slavery written\nin a time when slavery was a living memory for most people. Nothing hammers that home more than free\nand liberal use of the N-word which is exactly what Mark Twain intended.\n \nI guess I can't exactly hate racism..how can I hate what is an integral part of my own species? Or perhaps\nit is the broader human reflex of xenophobia which is the integral part. Either way, I think we will \nforever be..cursed?...with the tendency to divide into groups and fight. Heh, when I used to work in \nprison, the inmates managed to divide themselves not by race, not by gang affiliation but by home telephone \narea code and fight over that. Heck I've even known people to fight over fictional interpretations ;- ). \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<721217.37688.qm@smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2011-01-18T09:44:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) (no subject)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 02:50 18/01/2011, Lee wrote:\nI guess I can't exactly hate racism..how can I hate what is an \nintegral part of my own species?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hate the sin, love the sinner...\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki -- a wiki about Gene Wolfe\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4D35A1B1.2090106@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2011-01-18T14:20:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) (no subject)", "in_reply_to": "<721217.37688.qm@smtp818.mail.ird.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/18/2011 3:44 AM, Mo Holkar wrote:\nAt 02:50 18/01/2011, Lee wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I guess I can't exactly hate racism..how can I hate what is an\nintegral part of my own species?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Hate the sin, love the sinner..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "QFT; the instinctive tribalism in the human animal is not an excuse for \nthe practice of racism, any more than instinctive elimination is an \nexcuse for peeing on the wall when nature calls." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<6FF3CC759BFA42578BDE49CA4828E9C0@jill>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2011-01-18T21:14:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) (no subject)", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: \"Lee Berman\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Gwern Branwen: >> Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_ I love the book. I hate \nthe racism. And I think\nyou can have it both ways in the realm of fiction and art. There's no \ncontradiction there.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Made me think of Huckleberry Finn and how there is a strong movement to \nrequire schools to carry a\nversion which finds a less offensive term than \"nigger\" (the N-word) which \nis repeated over 100 times\nin the story. To me that move would suck the life out of the book. It was \na book about slavery written\nin a time when slavery was a living memory for most people. Nothing \nhammers that home more than free\nand liberal use of the N-word which is exactly what Mark Twain intended." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I read about this recently. My biggest issue with it was the publisher's \nintention of replacing \"nigger\" with \"slave\" which is hardly synonymous. \nReplacing it with \"African American\" would sound wrong even to the most \ntin-eared PC warrior, but what's wrong with \"Black\"?\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4D367768.7090702@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2011-01-19T05:32:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) (no subject)", "in_reply_to": "<6FF3CC759BFA42578BDE49CA4828E9C0@jill>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/18/2011 3:14 PM, Gerry Quinn wrote:\n\nFrom: \"Lee Berman\" " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Gwern Branwen: >> Conrad's _Heart of Darkness_ I love the book. I\nhate the racism. And I think\nyou can have it both ways in the realm of fiction and art. There's no\ncontradiction there.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Made me think of Huckleberry Finn and how there is a strong movement\nto require schools to carry a\nversion which finds a less offensive term than \"nigger\" (the N-word)\nwhich is repeated over 100 times\nin the story. To me that move would suck the life out of the book. It\nwas a book about slavery written\nin a time when slavery was a living memory for most people. Nothing\nhammers that home more than free\nand liberal use of the N-word which is exactly what Mark Twain intended." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I read about this recently. My biggest issue with it was the publisher's\nintention of replacing \"nigger\" with \"slave\" which is hardly synonymous.\nReplacing it with \"African American\" would sound wrong even to the most\ntin-eared PC warrior, but what's wrong with \"Black\"?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Doesn't have a diminutive or familiar suffix." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] } ] }