{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5922", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5922, "subject": "Appearance of the Gods", "messages": 5, "voices": 3, "first": "2011-01-19T01:42:30+00:00", "last": "2011-01-19T20:34:53+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-19T01:42:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Appearance of the Gods", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn: how do you explain Echidna's apparently total lack of acknowledgement that \nshe was speaking to a clone of Typhon" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "This question raised another, possibly related question in my mind. Pas appears as two-headed\nin the window. Kypris is a beauty. Echidna is snake-haired I think. Scylla, snakey too?\n \nSo my question is, why? Why do they look like that? I don't have a clear answer in mind so I \nwas interested in the opinions of others. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4D36EA07.5080506@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-19T13:41:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Appearance of the Gods", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Lee Berman-\nPas appears as two-headed\nin the window. Kypris is a beauty. Echidna is snake-haired I think. Scylla, snakey too?\n\nSo my question is, why? Why do they look like that? I don't have a clear answer in mind so I\nwas interested in the opinions of others. \t\t \t \t\t" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Are you looking for practical reasons? I'm not sure there are any.\nTo some extent, they draw their appearance from monsters whose name they \nbear, but not especially. To a large extent, there's a tip of the hat to \nthe Olympians they parallel. As as demonic version of Hera, Echidna is \nassociated with the Python that encircles the Earth. Molpe, the demonic \nAthene, is crazy as opposed to wise and is more a version of the gorgon \nwhose stretched out face embellished Athene's shield. Scylla is the \ndemonic Poseidon and very similar to the Storm King. Actually, Scylla \n_does_ have a practical reason for her looks. She's a follower of the \nMegatherian Scylla, and I guess chooses her appearance based on that.\n\nu+16b9" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerryq at indigo.ie" }, "date": "2011-01-19T14:07:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Appearance of the Gods", "in_reply_to": "<4D36EA07.5080506@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: \"James Wynn\" \nLee Berman-\nPas appears as two-headed\nin the window. Kypris is a beauty. Echidna is snake-haired I think. \nScylla, snakey too?\n\nSo my question is, why? Why do they look like that? I don't have a clear \nanswer in mind so I\nwas interested in the opinions of others." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Are you looking for practical reasons? I'm not sure there are any.\nTo some extent, they draw their appearance from monsters whose name they \nbear, but not especially. To a large extent, there's a tip of the hat to \nthe Olympians they parallel. As as demonic version of Hera, Echidna is \nassociated with the Python that encircles the Earth. Molpe, the demonic \nAthene, is crazy as opposed to wise and is more a version of the gorgon \nwhose stretched out face embellished Athene's shield. Scylla is the \ndemonic Poseidon and very similar to the Storm King. Actually, Scylla \n_does_ have a practical reason for her looks. She's a follower of the \nMegatherian Scylla, and I guess chooses her appearance based on that." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tartaros tells Auk that their appearances are the self-images of the gods. \nHe gives the specific example of Kypris:\n\n\"You say that you could nearly make out the face of my father's concubine. \nThe face you nearly saw was her own image of herself as she imagines that \nself to appear. I feel confident that it was a beautiful face. I have \nnever met any woman more secure in her own vanity.\"\n\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4D36F1F3.4000509@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-19T14:15:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Appearance of the Gods", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 1/19/2011 8:07 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:\nTartaros tells Auk that their appearances are the self-images of the \ngods. He gives the specific example of Kypris:\n\n\"You say that you could nearly make out the face of my father's \nconcubine. The face you nearly saw was her own image of herself as she \nimagines that self to appear. I feel confident that it was a \nbeautiful face. I have never met any woman more secure in her own \nvanity.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Tartaros' assertion requires serious finessing. One cannot possibly \nassume that Echidna and Scylla thought they looked like that.\n\nu+16b9" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-19T20:34:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Appearance of the Gods", "in_reply_to": "<4D36F1F3.4000509@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "James Wynn: Are you looking for practical reasons? I'm not sure there are any.\nTo some extent, they draw their appearance from monsters whose name they \nbear, but not especially..... Actually, Scylla _does_ have a practical reason for \nher looks. She's a follower of the Megatherian Scylla, and I guess chooses her appearance \nbased on that." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n \nYes, my question pertained to practical reasons. Even if there is debate on the original \nappearance of this family (I tend to think Cilinia gave rise to great Scylla), the question\nis framed by Gerry and your later comments." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn: Tartaros tells Auk that their appearances are the self-images of the \ngods. He gives the specific example of Kypris" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "James Wynn: Tartaros' assertion requires serious finessing. One cannot possibly \nassume that Echidna and Scylla thought they looked like that." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n \nSo that's the problem. Even if they really were monsters in their original form, why would \nthey choose monster forms to appear to people in the Whorl? To scare them? We don't see \nfat Phaea the pig's image on a screen but I suspect it wasn't really scary.\n \nI'd hate to think it was pure auctorial choice...he had Typhon as mythological father of all \nmonsters so he felt compelled to name Typhon's family by those names...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Antonio Pedro Marques: I think the default assumption is that Pas looks like Typhon. \nPeople have asked about other gods forgetting that it's Pas who called the \nshots. If he wanted one of his family to look like a mouse, that's what they \nwould have looked like." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n \nI think this is getting at the inkling I have. Who would have the greatest tendency to think of \nKypris as beautiful and the family of Typhon as nasty monsters?\n \nAs Tartaros, suggests, that would be Kypris herself. Is there any way she could establish enough \nof her own control over the Whorl to force her own names and her own visions on Typhon's family? \n \nIf not, perhaps the next best explanation is that it was Pas under the spell of Kypris who gave\nhis family monster names and images. We know there was eternal conflict in Mainframe over control\nof things. Perhaps Typhon felt compelled to put both his family and Kypris onto the Whorl but once\nthere, Kypris had a much greater influence over Pas than she did as a flesh and blood woman over \nTyphon.\n \nYou know, if some tart took over and gave me and my Mom a monster name and a monster face while \noperating under the protection of my Dad, I might consider killing Dad and hunting down Kypris myself.\n \t\t \t \t\t " } ] } ] }