# Appearance of the Gods *The Urth list — 5 messages, 3 voices, 19 Jan 2011* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Lee Berman *19 Jan 2011, 01:42* > Gerry Quinn: how do you explain Echidna's apparently total lack of acknowledgement that > she was speaking to a clone of Typhon This question raised another, possibly related question in my mind. Pas appears as two-headed in the window. Kypris is a beauty. Echidna is snake-haired I think. Scylla, snakey too? So my question is, why? Why do they look like that? I don't have a clear answer in mind so I was interested in the opinions of others. --- ### James Wynn *19 Jan 2011, 13:41 · in reply to Lee Berman* > Lee Berman- > Pas appears as two-headed > in the window. Kypris is a beauty. Echidna is snake-haired I think. Scylla, snakey too? > > So my question is, why? Why do they look like that? I don't have a clear answer in mind so I > was interested in the opinions of others. Are you looking for practical reasons? I'm not sure there are any. To some extent, they draw their appearance from monsters whose name they bear, but not especially. To a large extent, there's a tip of the hat to the Olympians they parallel. As as demonic version of Hera, Echidna is associated with the Python that encircles the Earth. Molpe, the demonic Athene, is crazy as opposed to wise and is more a version of the gorgon whose stretched out face embellished Athene's shield. Scylla is the demonic Poseidon and very similar to the Storm King. Actually, Scylla _does_ have a practical reason for her looks. She's a follower of the Megatherian Scylla, and I guess chooses her appearance based on that. u+16b9 --- ### Gerry Quinn *19 Jan 2011, 14:07 · in reply to James Wynn* >> From: "James Wynn" >> Lee Berman- >> Pas appears as two-headed >> in the window. Kypris is a beauty. Echidna is snake-haired I think. >> Scylla, snakey too? >> >> So my question is, why? Why do they look like that? I don't have a clear >> answer in mind so I >> was interested in the opinions of others. > Are you looking for practical reasons? I'm not sure there are any. > To some extent, they draw their appearance from monsters whose name they > bear, but not especially. To a large extent, there's a tip of the hat to > the Olympians they parallel. As as demonic version of Hera, Echidna is > associated with the Python that encircles the Earth. Molpe, the demonic > Athene, is crazy as opposed to wise and is more a version of the gorgon > whose stretched out face embellished Athene's shield. Scylla is the > demonic Poseidon and very similar to the Storm King. Actually, Scylla > _does_ have a practical reason for her looks. She's a follower of the > Megatherian Scylla, and I guess chooses her appearance based on that. Tartaros tells Auk that their appearances are the self-images of the gods. He gives the specific example of Kypris: "You say that you could nearly make out the face of my father's concubine. The face you nearly saw was her own image of herself as she imagines that self to appear. I feel confident that it was a beautiful face. I have never met any woman more secure in her own vanity." - Gerry Quinn --- ### James Wynn *19 Jan 2011, 14:15 · in reply to Gerry Quinn* > On 1/19/2011 8:07 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote: > Tartaros tells Auk that their appearances are the self-images of the > gods. He gives the specific example of Kypris: > > "You say that you could nearly make out the face of my father's > concubine. The face you nearly saw was her own image of herself as she > imagines that self to appear. I feel confident that it was a > beautiful face. I have never met any woman more secure in her own > vanity." Tartaros' assertion requires serious finessing. One cannot possibly assume that Echidna and Scylla thought they looked like that. u+16b9 --- ### Lee Berman *19 Jan 2011, 20:34 · follows James Wynn* > James Wynn: Are you looking for practical reasons? I'm not sure there are any. > To some extent, they draw their appearance from monsters whose name they > bear, but not especially..... Actually, Scylla _does_ have a practical reason for > her looks. She's a follower of the Megatherian Scylla, and I guess chooses her appearance > based on that. Yes, my question pertained to practical reasons. Even if there is debate on the original appearance of this family (I tend to think Cilinia gave rise to great Scylla), the question is framed by Gerry and your later comments. > Gerry Quinn: Tartaros tells Auk that their appearances are the self-images of the > gods. He gives the specific example of Kypris > James Wynn: Tartaros' assertion requires serious finessing. One cannot possibly > assume that Echidna and Scylla thought they looked like that. So that's the problem. Even if they really were monsters in their original form, why would they choose monster forms to appear to people in the Whorl? To scare them? We don't see fat Phaea the pig's image on a screen but I suspect it wasn't really scary. I'd hate to think it was pure auctorial choice...he had Typhon as mythological father of all monsters so he felt compelled to name Typhon's family by those names.... > Antonio Pedro Marques: I think the default assumption is that Pas looks like Typhon. > People have asked about other gods forgetting that it's Pas who called the > shots. If he wanted one of his family to look like a mouse, that's what they > would have looked like. I think this is getting at the inkling I have. Who would have the greatest tendency to think of Kypris as beautiful and the family of Typhon as nasty monsters? As Tartaros, suggests, that would be Kypris herself. Is there any way she could establish enough of her own control over the Whorl to force her own names and her own visions on Typhon's family? If not, perhaps the next best explanation is that it was Pas under the spell of Kypris who gave his family monster names and images. We know there was eternal conflict in Mainframe over control of things. Perhaps Typhon felt compelled to put both his family and Kypris onto the Whorl but once there, Kypris had a much greater influence over Pas than she did as a flesh and blood woman over Typhon. You know, if some tart took over and gave me and my Mom a monster name and a monster face while operating under the protection of my Dad, I might consider killing Dad and hunting down Kypris myself. ---