{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5938", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5938, "subject": "Funes the Memorious", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2011-01-24T07:36:20+00:00", "last": "2011-01-27T18:23:10+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Mr Thalassocrat", "address": "thalassocrat08 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-24T07:36:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Funes the Memorious", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "A Borges story I hadn't read before, about a man with perfect memory:\nhttp://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/borges.htm\n\nNice to ponder on what use Wolfe might have made of it in constructing Sev.\n\nBut perhaps Sev suffered from hyperthymesia, even though it seems to have\nbeen defined as a condition only recently:\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthymesia\n\n\"1) the person spends an abnormally large amount of time thinking about his\nor her personal past, and 2) the person has an extraordinary capacity to\nrecall specific events from his or her personal past.\"" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4D3D6E5F.9090102@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "António Pedro Marques", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-24T12:19:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Funes the Memorious", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mr Thalassocrat wrote (24-01-2011 07:36):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "A Borges story I hadn't read before, about a man with perfect memory\n(...)\nNice to ponder on what use Wolfe might have made of it in constructing Sev\n(...)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Heh. Borges excelled in that. He got some idea and he wrote a story with the \nright amount of substance to illustrate it - differing from other authors in \nthat there's barely no scenery. Almost his entire work is like that. Read \nalmost all of it a long ago... and sadly haven't gotten the time to reread, \nthough it's itching. My impression is that it's got everything there. There \nare few, if any, ideas, in Wolfe or anyone else, which Borges didn't \npresent. Borges of course got them from a myriad of sources, directly or \nindirectly. There's even a Borges story where some guy from the future, \nwhich has a life span of centuries, mentions he's read only a couple of \nbooks in his life, as what is important is rereading. GW responds to Borges \nin a way I haven't seen anywhere else; where Borges could be considered the \nphilosopher, GW is the engineer, finding practical application for the \nother's ideas. (Again, neither Borges came uo with them on his own, nor is \nGW some kind of imitator: their roles are quite different, complement each \nother and neither is subordinate - GW didn't necessarily get his ideas from \nBorges, and had there been no Borges, he could have built his work, or \nanother of comparable value, all the same.)" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-24T13:38:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Funes the Memorious", "in_reply_to": "<4D3D6E5F.9090102@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Mr. Thalassocrat: Nice to ponder on what use Wolfe might have made of it in constructing Sev." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nYes, I agree. Good find!. And I think it goes beyond the memory thing. The term \"dithyramb\" is used. \nAnd this from the third paragraph: " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Funes was a precursor of the superman, \"an untamed and vernacular Zarathustra\"; I do not doubt it, \nbut one must not forget, either, that he was a countryman from the town of Fray Bentos, with certain \nincurable limitations." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "These are direct references to Nietzsche and it would appear that Borges/Wolfe view Funes/Severian as\nprecursor to the ?bermensch, the superman, but a little too provincial/dumb to realize what he is.\n \nZarathustra is Nietzsche's term for Zoroaster, the gnostic religious figure with a name meaning something\nlike \"pure star\". Nietzsche saw humanity as a transitional form between the apes and the future supermen.\nNo coincidence that the main theme of the movie 2001-A Space Odyssey is Also Sprach Zarathustra.\n \nThen we have Nietzsche's dichotomy between Apollonian (paternal, male, light, Judeo-Christian, science/order\nbased) vs. Dionysian (maternal, androgynous, dark, pagan/mystic, individual experience based). This theme seems\nrepeated over and over in BotNS.\n \nI don't know if the lines of influence of ancient gnostic religion and philosophy are in series or parallel \nthrough Nietzsche and Borges to Wolfe but they are definitely there. I have not previously seen Nietzsche\nnoted as a major influence on Wolfe but perhaps it should be considered. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<522093.89396.qm@web114711.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-01-27T18:23:10+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Funes the Memorious", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Mr Thalassocrat thalassocrat08 at gmail.com\n\nA Borges story I hadn't read before, about a man with perfect memory: \nhttp://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/borges.htm" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Maybe you know that in addition to the surname \"Funes\", there's a Spanish\nword \"funesto\" that means disastrous, ill-fated, and stuff like that." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Nice to ponder on what use Wolfe might have made of it in constructing Sev. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I feel sure he had it in mind." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But perhaps Sev suffered from hyperthymesia, even though it seems to have been \ndefined as a condition only recently: \nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthymesia?\n\n\"1) the person spends an abnormally large amount of time thinking about his or \nher personal past, and 2) the person has an extraordinary capacity to recall \nspecific events from his or her personal past.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": ":-)\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n\n " } ] } ] }