{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/5948", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 5948, "subject": "The Trailer of Ink", "messages": 7, "voices": 6, "first": "2011-01-31T20:13:48+00:00", "last": "2011-02-01T02:16:49+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<4D4717FC.60604@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2011-01-31T20:13:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Trailer of Ink", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In URTH, Chapter XXXIX, \"The Claw Of The Conciliator Again\", Sev gives \nthe new thorn to Typhon's guardsmen, establishing a one-off timeloop \nfor it to come into his younger self's possession a thousand years later.\n\nHowever, he also says, \"Whence comes this unslakable thirst to leave \nbehind me a wandering trail of ink, I cannot say\" when contemplating a \nfurther volume of memoirs. This may be another timeloop setup, as in \nSHADOW VI,\n\n\"'Of the trail of ink there is no end,'\" Master Ultan told me. \"Or so a \nwise man said. He lived long ago what would he say if he could see us \nnow? '\"\n\nCould this be actual textev that at least one of the volumes, or a work \nthat quotes a found volume of Sev's manuscript, has come to rest in \nUltan's library?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at io.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gwern Branwen", "address": "gwern0 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-01-31T20:30:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Trailer of Ink", "in_reply_to": "<4D4717FC.60604@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nIn URTH, Chapter XXXIX, \"The Claw Of The Conciliator Again\", Sev gives the\nnew thorn to Typhon's guardsmen, establishing “a one-off timeloop for it to\ncome into his younger self's possession a thousand years later.\n\nHowever, he also says, \"Whence comes this unslakable thirst to leave behind\nme a wandering trail of ink, I cannot say\" when contemplating a further\nvolume of memoirs. This may be another timeloop setup, as in SHADOW VI,\n\n\"'Of the trail of ink there is no end,'\" Master Ultan told me. \"Or so a wise\nman said. He lived long ago what would he say if he could see us now” '\"\n\nCould this be actual textev that at least one of the volumes, or a work that\nquotes a found volume of Sev's manuscript, has come to rest in Ultan's\nlibrary?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Severian's phrase doesn't include the key idea - the endlessness of\nwritings. (Or at least, in a rather indirect way, with 'unslakeable'.)\n\nI would look instead to Ecclesiastes. It is one of the wisdom books of\nthe Bible, without doubt read several times by Wolfe, and internally\nattributed to a wise man. We read in one translation:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "\"By this, my sonne, be admonished: of making many bookes there is no end, and much studie is a wearinesse of the flesh.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "(I seem to recall seeing it as \"Of many words there is no end\", which\nis even closer to Ultan's version.)" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "gwern\nhttp://www.gwern.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "<183C6795-D8B5-46B6-A801-C51252ED2FCE@io.com>", "from": { "name": "Adam Thornton", "address": "adam at io.com" }, "date": "2011-01-31T20:33:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Trailer of Ink", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jan 31, 2011, at 2:30 PM, Gwern Branwen wrote:\n\nSeverian's phrase doesn't include the key idea - the endlessness of\nwritings. (Or at least, in a rather indirect way, with 'unslakeable'.)\n\nI would look instead to Ecclesiastes. It is one of the wisdom books of\nthe Bible, without doubt read several times by Wolfe, and internally\nattributed to a wise man. We read in one translation:" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'd also comb through Borges.\n\nAdam" } ] }, { "message_id": "<30e6f371e4a527c34388728b10dd37d3.squirrel@webmail.prismnet.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at io.com" }, "date": "2011-01-31T20:41:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Trailer of Ink", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:13 PM, Jeff Wilson wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "In URTH, Chapter XXXIX, \"The Claw Of The Conciliator Again\", Sev gives\nthe\nnew thorn to Typhon's guardsmen, establishing “a one-off timeloop for it\nto\ncome into his younger self's possession a thousand years later.\n\nHowever, he also says, \"Whence comes this unslakable thirst to leave\nbehind\nme a wandering trail of ink, I cannot say\" when contemplating a further\nvolume of memoirs. This may be another timeloop setup, as in SHADOW VI,\n\n\"'Of the trail of ink there is no end,'\" Master Ultan told me. \"Or so a\nwise\nman said. He lived long ago what would he say if he could see us now” '\"\n\nCould this be actual textev that at least one of the volumes, or a work\nthat\nquotes a found volume of Sev's manuscript, has come to rest in Ultan's\nlibrary?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Severian's phrase doesn't include the key idea - the endlessness of\nwritings. (Or at least, in a rather indirect way, with 'unslakeable'.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That's what I mean - he can't say where the end is, either. In the\noriginal idiom, the wording may be even closer. Which is ironic, given\n\"terminus est\" can also be translated as \"the end\" or even \"the final\nword\"." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "davidd at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2011-01-31T22:14:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Trailer of Ink", "in_reply_to": "<4D4717FC.60604@io.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, 31 Jan 2011, Jeff Wilson wrote:\n\"'Of the trail of ink there is no end,'\" Master Ultan told me. \"Or so a wise \nman said. He lived long ago what would he say if he could see us now? '\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There is the question of who he is quoting. It might be a gloss, as per \nthe sundials, of\n\n...Of writing many books there is no end, [and much study is a weariness \nof the flesh]. Ecclesiastes 12:12" } ] }, { "message_id": "<501927.67752.qm@web161815.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-01-31T22:18:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) woldercan's sacrifice, the circus of Dr. Lao", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Just had a chance to read Circus of Dr. Lao this week, and was shocked by how much of the stuff has at least some resonance with Wolfe. The Hound of the hedges is a chlorophyl driven green hound that just kind of sprung into existence, but I was wondering if anything had been made of how the entire Woldercan scenes are just geared around the sacrifice of the most beautiful virgin.\n\nAs far as Evil Guest goes, I believe it was Dave Tallman who made a lot of cogent comparisons between it and other literature, (my apologies if it was another Dave, about all of my friends somehow are named David) and I was wondering if that sacrificial beauty pageant has anything to do with Cassie's final trip to Woldercan. I know there is the sacrifice on the Island, but is there something about her glamorization that has made her worthy of human sacrifice, too?\n\nAlso, the most fantastic part of the book is Dr. Lao just walking into a department before closing and getting the circus permits one night before the show. That was my job for three years, pretty much impossible anywhere nowadays." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dave Tallman", "address": "davetallman at msn.com" }, "date": "2011-02-01T02:16:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) woldercan's sacrifice, the circus of Dr. Lao", "in_reply_to": "<501927.67752.qm@web161815.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nAs far as Evil Guest goes, I believe it was Dave Tallman who made a\nlot of cogent comparisons between it and other literature, (my\napologies if it was another Dave, about all of my friends somehow are\nnamed David) and I was wondering if that sacrificial beauty pageant\nhas anything to do with Cassie's final trip to Woldercan. I know\nthere is the sacrifice on the Island, but is there something about her\nglamorization that has made her worthy of human sacrifice, too?\n\nThanks for the compliments. I think Bill Reis' sacrifice has many parallels\nwith the Woldercan sacrifice scene.\n\n1) There is a drought and the Woldercan people are praying for rain.\n In AEG. they are trying to stop a storm.\n\n2) A bold member of the audience suggests they demand instead of pray.\n This reflects the hubris of Bill Reis, who thinks he can take over the\nworld and give everyone literacy and enough to eat.\n\n3) The betrothed of this man is selected for sacrifice.\n Cassie is put in jeopardy.\n\n4) He suggests his life be exchanged for hers.\n Basically this is what Bill does.\n\n5) There is a struggle and the man, his betrothed, and the offering priest\nall die.\n Bill dies. Kanoa dies. Cassie dies to the world, no longer recognizable\nas the star she was.\n\n6) There is a blessing -- manna and rain fall from the heavens.\n Cassie at least is blessed, removed from the island and the storm to a\nplace where she can survive." } ] } ] }