{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6021", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6021, "subject": "Wolfe in music?", "messages": 14, "voices": 7, "first": "2011-05-23T19:02:34+00:00", "last": "2011-05-25T15:40:39+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:02:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sharing this for the fun of it: there's an image drawn from and a direct\nquote from Wolfe's short story 'The Detective of Dreams' in the opening\nlines of a new song from one of my bands:\n\nhttp://doctornobot.blogspot.com/2011/05/6-detective-of-nightmares-and-case-of.html\n\nOn that note: does anyone know of Wolfe's works being referenced in song\nanywhere? I think I once saw that there was a metal band called Carnifex.\n Pretty cool.\n\nMy stuff's more punk rock than metal, so I'm happy to bring Wolfe into that\nworld - I think he's probably too readily associated with metal or prog\nrock, especially BotNS. Actually, I saw a comment in a thread once that\nmentioned that Wolfe was good *despite* being a bit Yngwie Malmsteen. Ha!\n\nOf course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself is\ninto anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, who found his way\ninto Led Zeppelin and others.)\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "<157771-1306177482-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2011598191-@b2.c5.bise6.blackberry>", "from": { "name": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:04:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Er\nSent from my BlackBerry? smartphone with SprintSpeed\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSender: urth-bounces at lists.urth.netDate: Mon, 23 May 2011 20:02:34 \nTo: The Urth Mailing List\nReply-To: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: (urth) Wolfe in music?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4DDAAFF6.50205@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:05:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/23/2011 2:02 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nOf course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene \nhimself is into anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, \nwho found his way into Led Zeppelin and others.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And yet I think Wolfe created Severian to appeal to that sort of \naudience. He has said repeatedly that initial seed to Severian was that \nhe wanted a character fans could easily cosplay at conventions.\n\nJ." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:09:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<4DDAAFF6.50205@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Shirtless guy in a mask with a sword sounds more like \"how to end up as a sex offender suspect\" than \"cool costume idea.\"\n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 23, 2011, at 2:05 PM, James Wynn wrote:\nOn 5/23/2011 2:02 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Of course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself is into anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, who found his way into Led Zeppelin and others.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And yet I think Wolfe created Severian to appeal to that sort of audience. He has said repeatedly that initial seed to Severian was that he wanted a character fans could easily cosplay at conventions.\n\nJ.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:15:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<4DDAAFF6.50205@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:05 PM, James Wynn wrote:\nOn 5/23/2011 2:02 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Of course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself\nis into anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, who found his\nway into Led Zeppelin and others.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And yet I think Wolfe created Severian to appeal to that sort of audience.\nHe has said repeatedly that initial seed to Severian was that he wanted a\ncharacter fans could easily cosplay at conventions." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Yeah, I've always heard that too. So yeah, cosplay and so on for sure.\n Gene seems to definitely have some kind of baroque, gothic taste that\noverlaps with these subcultures (from costumed convention-goers to\nmetalheads). At times the guy's practically a goth-metal lyricist!\n Hilarious. But I love how these aspects of Wolfe relate so widely to\n'alternative' art-culture. That's one part of why I think more gothy/punky\nwriters like Gaiman and Mieville love him so much. And it just adds to the\nenigma of the disparate parts he brings together into one man. What a guy.\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "<19541.40414.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:15:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wolfe and Malmsteen...that's rich...I connected Wolfe and Fripp....I thought that was a better mix...but you are correct , I am certain there is no difference between?Yngwie Malmsteen and Robert Fripp to Our Hero ...!!!\n\n???????? ? ? \n\n\n? ?? \n\n\n--- On Mon, 5/23/11, Daniel Petersen wrote:\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: (urth) Wolfe in music?\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Monday, May 23, 2011, 12:02 PM\n\nSharing this for the fun of it: ?there's an image drawn from and a direct quote from Wolfe's short story 'The Detective of Dreams' in the opening lines of a new song from one of my bands:?\n\nhttp://doctornobot.blogspot.com/2011/05/6-detective-of-nightmares-and-case-of.html\nOn that note: “does anyone know of Wolfe's works being referenced in song anywhere” ?I think I once saw that there was a metal band called Carnifex. ?Pretty cool. ?\n\nMy stuff's more punk rock than metal, so I'm happy to bring Wolfe into that world - I think he's probably too readily associated with metal or prog rock, especially BotNS. ?Actually, I saw a comment in a thread once that mentioned that Wolfe was good *despite* being a bit?Yngwie Malmsteen. Ha!\n\nOf course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself is into anything remotely like all that! ?(Nor was Tolkien, who found his way into Led Zeppelin and others.)\n\n-DOJP\n\n-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" } ] }, { "message_id": "<633346.21492.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:16:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Fewer clothes = easier costume.\n\nIt's strange now that I think about it. People who cosplay at cons are often \nalso part of the \"filk\" scene. (It's basically fan fiction in folk song form, \nfor those who haven't been subjected to ten+ minute renditions on David Eddings \nplot summaries in three-chord format before, like I have...) Metal and folk \ndon't often go hand in hand, do they? Or do they? I don't know much about metal.\n\nWhat kind of music does Wolfe mention in his books? I'm drawing a blank on \nwhether he describes much of the music in New/Long/Short Sun in particular.\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Lane Haygood \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Mon, May 23, 2011 2:09:45 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) Wolfe in music?\n\nShirtless guy in a mask with a sword sounds more like \"how to end up as a sex \noffender suspect\" than \"cool costume idea.\"\n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 23, 2011, at 2:05 PM, James Wynn wrote:\nOn 5/23/2011 2:02 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Of course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself is \ninto anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, who found his way into \nLed Zeppelin and others.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And yet I think Wolfe created Severian to appeal to that sort of audience. He \nhas said repeatedly that initial seed to Severian was that he wanted a character \nfans could easily cosplay at conventions.\n\nJ.\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:18:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Lane Haygood wrote:\nShirtless guy in a mask with a sword sounds more like \"how to end up as a\nsex offender suspect\" than \"cool costume idea.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ha! Frankly, there is a large does of S&M undercurrent in Wolfe. I admit\nit usually makes me fairly uncomfortable. I suspect others enjoy it.\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:20:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<633346.21492.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Folk metal is a huge genre. It's practically Finland's major source of pop art. \n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On May 23, 2011, at 2:16 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:\nFewer clothes = easier costume.\n\nIt's strange now that I think about it. People who cosplay at cons are often \nalso part of the \"filk\" scene. (It's basically fan fiction in folk song form, \nfor those who haven't been subjected to ten+ minute renditions on David Eddings \nplot summaries in three-chord format before, like I have...) Metal and folk \ndon't often go hand in hand, do they? Or do they? I don't know much about metal.\n\nWhat kind of music does Wolfe mention in his books? I'm drawing a blank on \nwhether he describes much of the music in New/Long/Short Sun in particular.\n\n\n\n----- Original Message ----\nFrom: Lane Haygood \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Mon, May 23, 2011 2:09:45 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) Wolfe in music?\n\nShirtless guy in a mask with a sword sounds more like \"how to end up as a sex \noffender suspect\" than \"cool costume idea.\"\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\nOn May 23, 2011, at 2:05 PM, James Wynn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 5/23/2011 2:02 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Of course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself is \ninto anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, who found his way into \nLed Zeppelin and others.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "And yet I think Wolfe created Severian to appeal to that sort of audience. He \nhas said repeatedly that initial seed to Severian was that he wanted a character \nfans could easily cosplay at conventions.\n\nJ.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-23T19:29:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<19541.40414.qm@web81405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 8:15 PM, Stuart Hamm wrote:\nWolfe and Malmsteen...that's rich...\nI connected Wolfe and Fripp....I thought that was a better mix...but you\nare correct , I am certain there is no difference between Yngwie Malmsteen\nand Robert Fripp to Our Hero ...!!!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, like I said, prog and metal. Speaking of which, though, does anyone\nknow what kind of music Gene himself likes to listen to?\n\n\nCraig Brewer to Urth\n\n\nMetal and folk don't often go hand in hand, do they? Or do they? I don't\nknow much about metal.\nSometimes, I think. But they share medieval and ancient fantasy and myth\nthemes in common in their lyrics and imagery and even lifestyle often.\n (That was a hilarious description you gave of 'filk' by the bye.)\n\nWhat kind of music does Wolfe mention in his books? I'm drawing a blank on" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "whether he describes much of the music in New/Long/Short Sun in particular." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Whoah! That's weird, I'm drawing a blank too. Surely there's mention of\nmusic! It feels like his Solar worlds are somehow resplendent with music,\nsong, and poetry - even if their never mentioned! Is this another instance\nof Wolfe's insanely powerful *implied/assumed* world-building?\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "<673769.48887.qm@web114710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-05-25T14:30:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<633346.21492.qm@web37602.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Craig Brewer " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Fewer clothes = easier costume." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And it works for guys who have or like to pretend they have builds they can show \noff." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's strange now that I think about it. People who cosplay at cons are often \nalso part of the \"filk\" scene. (It's basically fan fiction in folk song form, " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "for those who haven't been subjected to ten+ minute renditions on David \nEddings \n\nplot summaries in three-chord format before, like I have...) Metal and folk \ndon't often go hand in hand, do they? Or do they? I don't know much about \nmetal.\n\nWhat kind of music does Wolfe mention in his books? I'm drawing a blank on \nwhether he describes much of the music in New/Long/Short Sun in particular." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI can only think of folk songs--\"Born beneath a shooting star\" and \"Sad \nexperience teaches me\" and such. There must be other music, though.\n\n\"The Tale of the Student and His Son\" mentions dancing to celebrate the victory \nover the Minotaur/Monitor, but says nothing about the music." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/23/2011 2:02 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nOf course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself is \ninto anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, who found his way into \n\nLed Zeppelin and others.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...\n\nI vaguely remember reading that he does in fact listen to \"headbanging heavy \nmetal\", but I can't find it on the Web.\n\nCertainly the title /There are Doors/ is from the cover of the Doors' first \nalbum, not that that's exactly heavy metal.\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4DDD1A00.2030504@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-05-25T15:02:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<673769.48887.qm@web114710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's strange now that I think about it. People who cosplay at cons are often\nalso part of the \"filk\" scene. (It's basically fan fiction in folk song form,\nfor those who haven't been subjected to ten+ minute renditions on David\nEddings plot summaries in three-chord format before, like I have...)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Either in Castle of the Otter or during his online chat on the SciFi \nchannel, Wolfe says the kind of music he enjoys is Folk and Filk.\n\nJ." } ] }, { "message_id": "<401354.49873.qm@web161803.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-05-25T15:34:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<4DDD1A00.2030504@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Wed, 5/25/11, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n\nAnd it works for guys who have or like to pretend they have\nbuilds they can show \noff." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I feel like you've known me all my life. That Bruce Lee Halloween costume was sure easy work for many many years." } ] }, { "message_id": "<531246172-1306338040-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-584923279-@b2.c5.bise6.blackberry>", "from": { "name": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2011-05-25T15:40:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Wolfe in music?", "in_reply_to": "<673769.48887.qm@web114710.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My 1st GW light bulb moment was the first story in Endangered Species about the traffic jam and the blues music was written about quite well imho\nSent from my BlackBerry? smartphone with SprintSpeed\n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: Jerry Friedman \nSender: urth-bounces at lists.urth.netDate: Wed, 25 May 2011 07:30:58 " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "To: The Urth Mailing List\nReply-To: The Urth Mailing List \nSubject: Re: (urth) Wolfe in music?\nFrom: Craig Brewer " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Fewer clothes = easier costume." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And it works for guys who have or like to pretend they have builds they can show \noff." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It's strange now that I think about it. People who cosplay at cons are often \nalso part of the \"filk\" scene. (It's basically fan fiction in folk song form, " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "for those who haven't been subjected to ten+ minute renditions on David \nEddings \n\nplot summaries in three-chord format before, like I have...) Metal and folk \ndon't often go hand in hand, do they? Or do they? I don't know much about \nmetal.\n\nWhat kind of music does Wolfe mention in his books? I'm drawing a blank on \nwhether he describes much of the music in New/Long/Short Sun in particular." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI can only think of folk songs--\"Born beneath a shooting star\" and \"Sad \nexperience teaches me\" and such. There must be other music, though.\n\n\"The Tale of the Student and His Son\" mentions dancing to celebrate the victory \nover the Minotaur/Monitor, but says nothing about the music." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/23/2011 2:02 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nOf course, the really hilarious thing is that I highly doubt Gene himself is \ninto anything remotely like all that! (Nor was Tolkien, who found his way into \n\nLed Zeppelin and others.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...\n\nI vaguely remember reading that he does in fact listen to \"headbanging heavy \nmetal\", but I can't find it on the Web.\n\nCertainly the title /There are Doors/ is from the cover of the Doors' first \nalbum, not that that's exactly heavy metal.\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] } ] }