{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6039", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6039, "subject": "NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "messages": 22, "voices": 11, "first": "2011-06-23T14:55:09+00:00", "last": "2011-08-02T09:03:48+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2011-06-23T14:55:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Greg Bates wrote:\nThat was incredibly difficult. I wish it was five fantasy and five sci fi." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Of course, that would cause demarcation problems in some cases - and\nin no case more than with Wolfe. I think the _Sun_ cycle, taken as a\nwhole, has to be read as both SF and fantasy - it has some distinctive\nfeatures which ar sceintific or technological, and others which are\nmagical or supernatural." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Greg Bates", "address": "gregory.a.bates at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-06-23T14:58:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Obviously the answer is to put it on both :D" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Andrew Mason <\nandrew.mason53 at googlemail.com> wrote:\nGreg Bates wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "That was incredibly difficult. I wish it was five fantasy and five sci\nfi." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Of course, that would cause demarcation problems in some cases - and\nin no case more than with Wolfe. I think the _Sun_ cycle, taken as a\nwhole, has to be read as both SF and fantasy - it has some distinctive\nfeatures which ar sceintific or technological, and others which are\nmagical or supernatural.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2011-06-23T14:58:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nOn Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-06-23T15:46:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oops, brain fart. I meant ... \"if you haven't read New Sun.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 7:58 AM, Andrew Mason\n wrote:\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, ? wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-06-23T16:31:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went back\nand read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short Sun. It\nwas indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing.\n Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have\nencountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was\ncoming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe at\nBlue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<471011.32242.qm@smtp820.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Mo Holkar", "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk" }, "date": "2011-06-23T16:50:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 17:31 23/06/2011, you wrote:\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and \nwent back and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest \nof Short Sun. It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but \nhugely enticing. Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I \nthink I would have encountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no \nor little clue what was coming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into \nWolfe at Blue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I first read the four books of BotNS in the wrong order, as they \nbecame available in our local library (I was about 14-15 at the \ntime). The later books are so packed with back-references to prior \nevents, that I thought by the time I got to SotT there would be \nlittle to surprise me... how wrong I was!\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki -- a wiki about Gene Wolfe\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ " } ] }, { "message_id": "<352318.34870.qm@web161810.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-06-24T22:02:56+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short Sun just ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the ball, I won the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking about \"his\" dancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is something of Silk running around in that narrator.\n\nI like the published order, but Long and New should both be read before Short. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive outlook of Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could never make full sense.\n\n\n--- On Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went back and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short Sun. ?It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing. ?Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have encountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was coming. ?\n\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe at Blue might be the best way. ?I've always wondered the same.\n\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nOn Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, ? wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n\n\n\n\n\n-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" } ] }, { "message_id": "<169318.53330.qm@web80405.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2011-06-24T23:31:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "<352318.34870.qm@web161810.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interesting...\nI think the Short Sun series might be the most entertaining of the 3 series as a stand alone trilogy and could be an enjoyable read to the un-initiated..BUT if you have read the previous 2 series there so many more GW layers to open and try to unravel,,,brilliant..never thought of it that way before\n\nSTUHAMM.COM\nFACEBOOK/STUART.HAMM\n\n? ?? \n\n\n--- On Fri, 6/24/11, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\nFrom: Marc Aramini \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Friday, June 24, 2011, 3:02 PM\n\nYou could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short Sun just ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the ball, I won the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking about \"his\" dancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is something of Silk running around in that narrator.\n\nI like the published order, but Long and New should both be read before Short. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive outlook of Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could never make full sense.\n\n\n--- On Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went back and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short Sun. ?It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing. ?Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have encountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was coming. ?\n\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe at Blue might be the best way. ?I've always wondered the same.\n\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nOn Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, ? wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n\n\n\n\n\n-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-06-26T13:42:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "<352318.34870.qm@web161810.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You're probably right, Marc. But being plunged into all that mystery\nthrough the wonders of Short Sun is still quite exciting and inviting. I\nsometimes feel people on this board are far more into solving little (and\nhuge) puzzles than they are into a sense of wonder, awe, magic, thrill,\nhumanity, divinity, great writing, and so on in Gene Wolfe. I know the\npuzzles are integral to his art - but I just don't feel like the other\naspects get much air time.\n\nDOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nYou could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short Sun\njust ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the ball, I\nwon the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking about \"his\"\ndancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is something of Silk\nrunning around in that narrator.\nI like the published order, but Long and New should both be read before\nShort. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive outlook\nof Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could never\nmake full sense.\n\n\n--- On *Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen *wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went back\nand read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short Sun. It\nwas indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing.\n Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have\nencountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was\ncoming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe at\nBlue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason <\nandrew.mason53 at googlemail.com\nwrote:\n\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, >\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-05T22:31:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:\nYou're probably right, Marc. But being plunged into all that mystery\nthrough the wonders of Short Sun is still quite exciting and inviting. I\nsometimes feel people on this board are far more into solving little (and\nhuge) puzzles than they are into a sense of wonder, awe, magic, thrill,\nhumanity, divinity, great writing, and so on in Gene Wolfe. I know the\npuzzles are integral to his art - but I just don't feel like the other\naspects get much air time.\n\nDOJP\n\n\nOn Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short Sun\njust ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the ball, I\nwon the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking about \"his\"\ndancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is something of Silk\nrunning around in that narrator.\n I like the published order, but Long and New should both be read before\nShort. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive outlook\nof Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could never\nmake full sense.\n\n\n--- On *Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen *wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction\nand\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went back\nand read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short Sun. It\nwas indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing.\n Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have\nencountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was\ncoming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe\nat Blue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason <\nandrew.mason53 at googlemail.com\nwrote:\n\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, >\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-05T22:31:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Let me rephrase that 'many' to 'any'." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nWell, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer\n\n\nOn Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You're probably right, Marc. But being plunged into all that mystery\nthrough the wonders of Short Sun is still quite exciting and inviting. I\nsometimes feel people on this board are far more into solving little (and\nhuge) puzzles than they are into a sense of wonder, awe, magic, thrill,\nhumanity, divinity, great writing, and so on in Gene Wolfe. I know the\npuzzles are integral to his art - but I just don't feel like the other\naspects get much air time.\n\nDOJP\n\n\nOn Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "You could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short\nSun just ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the\nball, I won the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking\nabout \"his\" dancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is\nsomething of Silk running around in that narrator.\n I like the published order, but Long and New should both be read before\nShort. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive outlook\nof Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could never\nmake full sense.\n\n\n--- On *Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen \n* wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction\nand\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went\nback and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short\nSun. It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing.\n Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have\nencountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was\ncoming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe\nat Blue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason <\nandrew.mason53 at googlemail.com\nwrote:\n\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, >\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-05T22:42:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's clearly a list based on what's currently new on the stands. Given\nthat, it isn't a bad list." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nLet me rephrase that 'many' to 'any'.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer\n\n\nOn Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "You're probably right, Marc. But being plunged into all that mystery\nthrough the wonders of Short Sun is still quite exciting and inviting. I\nsometimes feel people on this board are far more into solving little (and\nhuge) puzzles than they are into a sense of wonder, awe, magic, thrill,\nhumanity, divinity, great writing, and so on in Gene Wolfe. I know the\npuzzles are integral to his art - but I just don't feel like the other\naspects get much air time.\n\nDOJP\n\n\nOn Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "You could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short\nSun just ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the\nball, I won the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking\nabout \"his\" dancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is\nsomething of Silk running around in that narrator.\n I like the published order, but Long and New should both be read\nbefore Short. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive\noutlook of Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could\nnever make full sense.\n\n\n--- On *Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction\nand\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went\nback and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short\nSun. It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing.\n Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have\nencountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was\ncoming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe\nat Blue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason <\nandrew.mason53 at googlemail.com\nwrote:\n\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, >\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-05T22:43:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Having billed it as a 'best of all time' list, I'd say it's pretty lame. It\nis highly likely that this is a related but separate list. I'm hoping so." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nIt's clearly a list based on what's currently new on the stands. Given\nthat, it isn't a bad list.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Let me rephrase that 'many' to 'any'.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Well, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer\n\n\nOn Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "You're probably right, Marc. But being plunged into all that mystery\nthrough the wonders of Short Sun is still quite exciting and inviting. I\nsometimes feel people on this board are far more into solving little (and\nhuge) puzzles than they are into a sense of wonder, awe, magic, thrill,\nhumanity, divinity, great writing, and so on in Gene Wolfe. I know the\npuzzles are integral to his art - but I just don't feel like the other\naspects get much air time.\n\nDOJP\n\n\nOn Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "You could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short\nSun just ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the\nball, I won the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking\nabout \"his\" dancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is\nsomething of Silk running around in that narrator.\n I like the published order, but Long and New should both be read\nbefore Short. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive\noutlook of Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could\nnever make full sense.\n\n\n--- On *Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com>* wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction\nand\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went\nback and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short\nSun. It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing.\n Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have\nencountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was\ncoming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into\nWolfe at Blue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason <\nandrew.mason53 at googlemail.com\nwrote:\n\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, >\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-05T22:45:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oops. Clearly this is not the list. If I had bothered to read my original\npost, I'd have seen they were accepting nominations for the top 100 sci fi\nof all time. This is not 100 books, therefore....\n\nsorry folks" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:43 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nHaving billed it as a 'best of all time' list, I'd say it's pretty lame.\n It is highly likely that this is a related but separate list. I'm hoping\nso.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:42 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "It's clearly a list based on what's currently new on the stands. Given\nthat, it isn't a bad list.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Let me rephrase that 'many' to 'any'.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Well, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer\n\n\nOn Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "You're probably right, Marc. But being plunged into all that mystery\nthrough the wonders of Short Sun is still quite exciting and inviting. I\nsometimes feel people on this board are far more into solving little (and\nhuge) puzzles than they are into a sense of wonder, awe, magic, thrill,\nhumanity, divinity, great writing, and so on in Gene Wolfe. I know the\npuzzles are integral to his art - but I just don't feel like the other\naspects get much air time.\n\nDOJP\n\n\nOn Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "You could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short\nSun just ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the\nball, I won the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking\nabout \"his\" dancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is\nsomething of Silk running around in that narrator.\n I like the published order, but Long and New should both be read\nbefore Short. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive\noutlook of Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could\nnever make full sense.\n\n\n--- On *Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com>* wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science\nFiction and\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went\nback and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short\nSun. It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing.\n Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have\nencountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was\ncoming.\n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into\nWolfe at Blue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason <\nandrew.mason53 at googlemail.com\nwrote:\n\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, >\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I\n*think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3D122D72-928B-4196-A134-097715C5EBE4@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-05T22:48:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, those are their new books, not the best all-time list. A best list with Ms. Merciel on it should still be suspect. I liked her first novel, but it was not brilliant and indulged too many common tropes. \n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 5, 2011, at 5:42 PM, \"Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\" wrote:\nIt's clearly a list based on what's currently new on the stands. Given that, it isn't a bad list.\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nLet me rephrase that 'many' to 'any'.\n\n\nOn Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nWell, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't comment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer\n\n\nOn Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 6:42 AM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nYou're probably right, Marc. But being plunged into all that mystery through the wonders of Short Sun is still quite exciting and inviting. I sometimes feel people on this board are far more into solving little (and huge) puzzles than they are into a sense of wonder, awe, magic, thrill, humanity, divinity, great writing, and so on in Gene Wolfe. I know the puzzles are integral to his art - but I just don't feel like the other aspects get much air time. \n\nDOJP\n\n\nOn Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nYou could read Long Sun before New or Short Sun, but starting at Short Sun just ruins so many little cool things, like the whole \"I caught the ball, I won the game\" thing at the end of On Blue's Water, Horn talking about \"his\" dancing toy, things that undeniably let you know there is something of Silk running around in that narrator.\nI like the published order, but Long and New should both be read before Short. If you don't have a thorough understanding of the positive outlook of Silk and his \"out of character\" suicidal impulse Short Sun could never make full sense.\n \n\n--- On Thu, 6/23/11, Daniel Petersen wrote:\n\nFrom: Daniel Petersen \nSubject: Re: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 9:31 AM\n\nYou know, I actually did read On Blue's Waters, then stopped and went back and read Long Sun before then re-reading Blue and the rest of Short Sun. It was indeed a very, very strange experience - but hugely enticing. Unfortunately it took away some of the mystery I think I would have encountered in reading Long Sun if I had had no or little clue what was coming. \n\nI think John Clute wondered in a review whether jumping right into Wolfe at Blue might be the best way. I've always wondered the same.\n\nDOJP\n\n\n\nOn Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 3:58 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 1:09 PM, wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Ha. The Book of the Long Sun is so much better!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I agree. But is it better if you haven't read \"Short Sun?\" (I *think*\nit is anyway, but I haven't experienced it in that order.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You read _Short Sun_ first? Was that not a rather puzzling experience?\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nick Lee", "address": "starwaterstrain at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-06T15:11:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "<3D122D72-928B-4196-A134-097715C5EBE4@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Jordon Flato wrote:\nWell, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's no surprise you haven't read any of those books. They're new books (all\nfrom 2011) NPR is suggesting we read this summer. It's not the \"Best Of\"\nList." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-06T15:48:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes. Yesterday I ate the requisite amount of crow\n\nOn Jul 6, 2011 8:12 AM, \"Nick Lee\" wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Jordon Flato wrote:\nWell, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It's no surprise you haven't read any of those books. They're new books (all\nfrom 2011) NPR is suggesting we read this summer. It's not the \"Best Of\"\nList." } ] }, { "message_id": "<69CCF76B-1DB7-4B52-9514-CFD47A2F80A0@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-06T15:57:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If you want, I may still have some hot coals from the 4th. I don't know what slow-smoked mesquite crow tastes like, but as a Texan, I firmly believe barbecue improves all meat dishes. \n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jul 6, 2011, at 10:48 AM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nYes. Yesterday I ate the requisite amount of crow" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On Jul 6, 2011 8:12 AM, \"Nick Lee\" wrote:\n\n Jordon Flato wrote:\nWell, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer\n\nIt's no surprise you haven't read any of those books. They're new books (all from 2011) NPR is suggesting we read this summer. It's not the \"Best Of\" List.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1309967887.95231.YahooMailClassic@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2011-07-06T15:58:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cut their funding!!!\n\n\n? ?? \n\n\n--- On Wed, 7/6/11, Nick Lee wrote:\n\nFrom: Nick Lee \nSubject: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nDate: Wednesday, July 6, 2011, 8:11 AM\n\n?Jordon Flato wrote:\n\nWell, they picked their list. ?Not having read many of them, I can't\ncomment, but of course I think it's ridiculous to not include New Sun.\n\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/06/30/137003853/mind-bending-sci-fi-books-for-a-fantastical-summer\n\n\nIt's no surprise you haven't read any of those books. They're new books (all from 2011) NPR is suggesting we read this summer. It's not the \"Best Of\" List.\n\n-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-07-06T16:39:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and", "in_reply_to": "<1309967887.95231.YahooMailClassic@web80404.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "@stu: lmao. Indeed.\n\nLane: I believe crow, like revenge is best served cold\n\nOn Jul 6, 2011 8:58 AM, \"Stuart Hamm\" wrote:\n\nCut their funding!!!\n\n\n\n\n\n\n--- On *Wed, 7/6/11, Nick Lee * wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Nick Lee \nSubject: (urth) NPR taking suggestions for The Best Science Fiction and\nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nDate: Wednesday, July 6, 2011, 8:11 AM\n\n Jordon Flato wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Well, they picked their list. Not having read many of them, I can't..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth...." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312044275.12821.YahooMailRC@web114714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-07-30T16:44:35+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Puppet video", "in_reply_to": "<3D122D72-928B-4196-A134-097715C5EBE4@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Apologies if this has been posted before, but some here will enjoy this video of \na puppet show by Philippe Genty. I recommend not reading the full description \nbefore watching it.\n\nI tried to decide whether it was Wolfean or anti-Wolfean, and settled on the \nformer.\n\nhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SphHaiW7fzg&feature=share\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312275828.48006.YahooMailClassic@web80406.mail.mud.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Stuart Hamm", "address": "hammstu at sbcglobal.net" }, "date": "2011-08-02T09:03:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Puppet video", "in_reply_to": "<1312044275.12821.YahooMailRC@web114714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "IMHO it seems to be saying that man cannot exist without God which sounds pretty Wolfean to me...but I am extremely jetlagged...\n\n\n\n? ?? \n\n\n--- On Sat, 7/30/11, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n\nFrom: Jerry Friedman \nSubject: (urth) Puppet video\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Saturday, July 30, 2011, 9:44 AM\n\nApologies if this has been posted before, but some here will enjoy this video of a puppet show by Philippe Genty. I recommend not reading the full description before watching it.\n\nI tried to decide whether it was Wolfean or anti-Wolfean, and settled on the former.\n\nhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SphHaiW7fzg&feature=share\n\nJerry Friedman\n\n-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" } ] } ] }