{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6043", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6043, "subject": "Looking for an Interview ...", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2011-08-03T13:15:25+00:00", "last": "2011-08-04T14:31:51+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T13:15:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Looking for an Interview ...", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hello! I just finished *The Fifth Head of Cerberus*, and loved it. It is\none of the best science fiction stories I have read ... it isn't very often\nI feel completely immersed in a world, but reading this book really made me\nfeel like I was wandering through some eerie, mysterious realm where nothing\nwas as it seemed. Absolutely fantastic.\n\nAnyways, I remember reading in an interview with Wolfe in which he said that\nSaint Croix and Saint Anne were *not* the Green and Blue planets in the *Short\nSun* books. Does anyone have any idea where I can find that interview?\nThanks!\n\n-K" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4E396A65.9000505@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T15:33:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Looking for an Interview ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Nothing so emphatic. I think you are conflating two interviews:\nhttp://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/intgw.htm\n\n James Jordan: I might as well at least /ask/ one of the $64,000\n questions, so I'll just go for broke. (Hmm. I've gotta be very\n precise here. Okay, here goes:) Which of the following, if any, are\n physically (not in some merely literary or symbolic sense) the same\n planets as Blue and Green, in the same order?:\n\n Ushas and Lune\n Urth and Lune\n Lune and Ushas\n Lune and Urth\n Two Urths\n Two Ushases\n Two Lunes\n\n Wolfe: None.\n\nAnd this:\nhttp://www.sfsite.com/03b/gw124.htm\n\n Nick Gevers: When I began reading */Short Sun/*, I, like many\n others, was struck by the new work's resonance of location with\n earlier novels [*The Fifth Head of Cerberus*; */New Sun/*]. Twin\n worlds, with respective blue and green associations: St Croix/St\n Anne; Urth/Lune; Blue/Green. Not that these are literally the same\n planets; but why this repeated pattern? (I should add that Joan\n Gordon, and I myself, have speculated on an allusion in */Short\n Sun/* to Kim Stanley Robinson's colour-sequenced */Mars/* novels...)\n\n Wolfe: At the time I first brought in Blue and Green, I didn't know\n about Stan's books. Nothing of that kind was intended.\n\n Gevers: [Trying again:] Can your readers usefully view *The Fifth\n Head of Cerberus* as being set in the same science-fictional\n universe as */New Sun/*, */Long Sun/*, and */Short Sun/*? Why does\n Fifth Head's pattern of blue/green sister worlds recur so\n tantalizingly in Urth/Lune, Blue/Green?\n\n Wolfe: I don't know.\n\n\nWhen Wolfe says he \"doesn't know\", he is surely answering the first of \nGever's two shot : \"Can readers *usefully* view tFHoC as set in the same \nuniverse as Severian and Silk.\"\n\nI simply refuse to believe that Wolfe doesn't know why the Blue/Green \npattern recurs. And following this line leads to the conclusion that \nWolfe is deliberately dodging the question. Two conclusions open to us are:\n\n1) Blue is St. Croix thousands of years later. Problem: No Neighbors as \nsuch nor Mother make obvious appearances in tFHoC.\n\n2) Wolfe has other reasons favoring the Blue/Green pair (it's not just \nplanets), and explaining them, he thinks, would reveal too much of his \n\"secret sauce\".\n\nJ Wynn" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 8/3/2011 8:15 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:\nHello! I just finished /The Fifth Head of Cerberus/, and loved it. \nIt is one of the best science fiction stories I have read ... it isn't \nvery often I feel completely immersed in a world, but reading this \nbook really made me feel like I was wandering through some eerie, \nmysterious realm where nothing was as it seemed. Absolutely fantastic.\n\nAnyways, I remember reading in an interview with Wolfe in which he \nsaid that Saint Croix and Saint Anne were /not/ the Green and Blue \nplanets in the /Short Sun/ books. Does anyone have any idea where I \ncan find that interview? Thanks!\n\n-K\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T15:40:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Looking for an Interview ...", "in_reply_to": "<4E396A65.9000505@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, you are correct. I had only seen the first interview you posted, and\nthought the interviewer had added Saints Anne and Croix to the list. I tend\nto think that you are correct in your assessment that \"Wolfe has other\nreasons favoring the Blue/Green pair (it's not just planets), and explaining\nthem, he thinks, would reveal too much of his \"secret sauce\".\" Of course it\nis Wolfe's prerogative to keep his motivations / reasons for writing certain\nthings to himself, but it would be nice to know! Part of Wolfe's appeal are\nthe puzzles to begin with ... so at the end of the day, I am fine with there\nbeing a sense of mystery to how his stories are set up." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:33 AM, James Wynn wrote:\n Nothing so emphatic. I think you are conflating two interviews:\nhttp://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/intgw.htm\n\n James Jordan: I might as well at least *ask* one of the $64,000\nquestions, so I'll just go for broke. (Hmm. I've gotta be very precise here.\nOkay, here goes:) Which of the following, if any, are physically (not in\nsome merely literary or symbolic sense) the same planets as Blue and Green,\nin the same order?:\n\nUshas and Lune\nUrth and Lune\nLune and Ushas\nLune and Urth\nTwo Urths\nTwo Ushases\nTwo Lunes\n\nWolfe: None.\n\nAnd this:\nhttp://www.sfsite.com/03b/gw124.htm\n\nNick Gevers: When I began reading *Short Sun*, I, like many others, was\nstruck by the new work's resonance of location with earlier novels [*The\nFifth Head of Cerberus*; *New Sun*]. Twin worlds, with respective blue and\ngreen associations: St Croix/St Anne; Urth/Lune; Blue/Green. Not that these\nare literally the same planets; but why this repeated pattern? (I should add\nthat Joan Gordon, and I myself, have speculated on an allusion in *Short\nSun* to Kim Stanley Robinson's colour-sequenced *Mars* novels...)\n\nWolfe: At the time I first brought in Blue and Green, I didn't know about\nStan's books. Nothing of that kind was intended.\n\nGevers: [Trying again:] Can your readers usefully view *The Fifth Head of\nCerberus* as being set in the same science-fictional universe as *New Sun*,\n*Long Sun*, and *Short Sun*? Why does Fifth Head's pattern of blue/green\nsister worlds recur so tantalizingly in Urth/Lune, Blue/Green?\n\nWolfe: I don't know.\n\n\nWhen Wolfe says he \"doesn't know\", he is surely answering the first of\nGever's two shot : \"Can readers *usefully* view tFHoC as set in the same\nuniverse as Severian and Silk.\"\n\nI simply refuse to believe that Wolfe doesn't know why the Blue/Green\npattern recurs. And following this line leads to the conclusion that Wolfe\nis deliberately dodging the question. Two conclusions open to us are:\n\n1) Blue is St. Croix thousands of years later. Problem: No Neighbors as\nsuch nor Mother make obvious appearances in tFHoC.\n\n2) Wolfe has other reasons favoring the Blue/Green pair (it's not just\nplanets), and explaining them, he thinks, would reveal too much of his\n\"secret sauce\".\n\nJ Wynn\n\n\n\nOn 8/3/2011 8:15 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote:\n\nHello! I just finished *The Fifth Head of Cerberus*, and loved it. It is\none of the best science fiction stories I have read ... it isn't very often\nI feel completely immersed in a world, but reading this book really made me\nfeel like I was wandering through some eerie, mysterious realm where nothing\nwas as it seemed. Absolutely fantastic.\n\nAnyways, I remember reading in an interview with Wolfe in which he said\nthat Saint Croix and Saint Anne were *not* the Green and Blue planets in\nthe *Short Sun* books. Does anyone have any idea where I can find that\ninterview? Thanks!\n\n-K\n\n\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312386693.60804.YahooMailNeo@web121013.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T15:51:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Looking for an Interview ...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I've always thought that the similarity was pretty obvious, but that it wasn't a point about connected plots or conjoined. It's more of a symbolic pattern that Wolfe likes where double planets and blue/green coloring are ways that he thinks about creation, re-creation, \"Garden of Eden\" myths and their corruption, etc. The double-planet motif always becomes important at the same time that the themes of natural/innocent states of being do, alongside the possibility of returning to or recreating that innocence, and the failures that usually go along with it.\n\nIn that sense, it's *incredibly* useful to think about their similarities, but it doesn't (necessarily or even most interestingly) lead to conclusions that Fifth Head and the Sun books happen in the same fictional universe.\n\n\n\n\n\nAh, you are correct. I had only seen the first interview you posted, and thought the interviewer had added Saints Anne and Croix to the list. I tend to think that you are correct in your assessment that \"Wolfe has other reasons favoring the Blue/Green pair (it's not just planets), and explaining them, he thinks, would reveal too much of his \"secret sauce\".\"? Of course it is Wolfe's prerogative to keep his motivations / reasons for writing certain things to himself, but it would be nice to know!? Part of Wolfe's appeal are the puzzles to begin with ... so at the end of the day, I am fine with there being a sense of mystery to how his stories are set up.\n\n\nOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 11:33 AM, James Wynn wrote:\n\nNothing so emphatic. I think you are conflating two interviews:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/nonfiction/intgw.htm\n\nJames Jordan: I might as well at least ask one of the $64,000 questions, so I'll just go for broke. (Hmm. I've gotta be very precise here. Okay, here goes:) Which of the following, if any, are physically (not in some merely literary or symbolic sense) the same planets as Blue and Green, in the same order?:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Ushas and Lune\nUrth and Lune\nLune and Ushas\nLune and Urth\nTwo Urths\nTwo Ushases\nTwo Lunes" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wolfe: None.And this:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.sfsite.com/03b/gw124.htm\n\nNick Gevers: When I began reading Short Sun, I, like many others, was struck by the new work's resonance of location with earlier novels [The Fifth Head of Cerberus; New Sun]. Twin worlds, with respective blue and green associations: St Croix/St Anne; Urth/Lune; Blue/Green. Not that these are literally the same planets; but why this repeated pattern? (I should add that Joan Gordon, and I myself, have speculated on an allusion in Short Sun to Kim Stanley Robinson's colour-sequenced Mars novels...) " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Wolfe: At the time I first brought in Blue and Green, I didn't know about Stan's books. Nothing of that kind was intended. \n\nGevers: [Trying again:] Can your readers usefully view The Fifth Head of Cerberus as being set in the same science-fictional universe as New Sun, Long Sun, and Short Sun? Why does Fifth Head's pattern of blue/green sister worlds recur so tantalizingly in Urth/Lune, Blue/Green? \n\nWolfe: I don't know. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "When Wolfe says he \"doesn't know\", he is surely answering the\n first of Gever's two shot : \"Can readers *usefully* view tFHoC as\n set in the same universe as Severian and Silk.\" \n\nI simply refuse to believe that Wolfe doesn't know why the\n Blue/Green pattern recurs. And following this line leads to the\n conclusion that Wolfe is deliberately dodging the question. Two\n conclusions open to us are: \n\n1) Blue is St. Croix thousands of years later. Problem: No" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " Neighbors as such nor Mother make obvious appearances in tFHoC." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "2) Wolfe has other reasons favoring the Blue/Green pair (it's not\n just planets), and explaining them, he thinks, would reveal too\n much of his \"secret sauce\".\n\nJ Wynn\n\n\n\nOn 8/3/2011 8:15 AM, Antonin Scriabin wrote: \nHello!? I just finished The Fifth Head of Cerberus, and loved it. It is one of the best science fiction stories I have read ... it isn't very often I feel completely immersed in a world, but reading this book really made me feel like I was wandering through some eerie, mysterious realm where nothing was as it seemed. Absolutely fantastic." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Anyways, I remember reading in an interview with Wolfe in which\n he said that Saint Croix and Saint Anne were not the Green and Blue planets in the Short Sun books. Does anyone have any idea where I can find that interview? Thanks!\n\n-K\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Urth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T14:31:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Looking for an Interview ...", "in_reply_to": "<4E396A65.9000505@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " From: James Wynn \n . \n\n Gevers: [Trying again:] Can your readers usefully view The Fifth Head of Cerberus as being set in the same science-fictional universe as New Sun, Long Sun, and Short Sun? Why does Fifth Head's pattern of blue/green sister worlds recur so tantalizingly in Urth/Lune, Blue/Green? \n\n Wolfe: I don't know. \n\n\n When Wolfe says he \"doesn't know\", he is surely answering the first of Gever's two shot : \"Can readers *usefully* view tFHoC as set in the same universe as Severian and Silk.\" \n\nI'm not so sure of that. Perhaps he views the first question as trivial. After all, even if Fifth Head is set in the same universe as New Sun, the events precede it by an enormous stretch of time. And the planets don't seem alike at all except for being twins and habitable by humans. So what would be useful about it?\n\nWolfe has used human twins in his novels, and also planetary twins. Perhaps there is some commonality in purpose. But it may be in part simply a way to have two separate but interacting civilisations which do not need to have a long history of interaction as would two civilisations confined on the same planet if at least one were technologically advanced.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] } ] }