{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6044", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6044, "subject": "Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "messages": 30, "voices": 14, "first": "2011-08-03T19:48:20+00:00", "last": "2011-08-05T16:28:29+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T19:48:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Time to participate in the second round of selection folks. There are good\nchoices on the list, and you can select 10. Only 1 Wolfe that I noticed\n(BotNS). Go and vote!\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138894873/vote-for-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-titles" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T19:52:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Already have! I have to say, some of the books on the list are pretty\nterrible, and shouldn't be considered for best of anything. There are also\nsome excellent candidates that are missing entirely from the list. Oh well.\n\nAlso, it looks like you can vote multiple times by simply reloading the\npage. Not sure if all the votes count, but it seems like it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\nTime to participate in the second round of selection folks. There are good\nchoices on the list, and you can select 10. Only 1 Wolfe that I noticed\n(BotNS). Go and vote!\n\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138894873/vote-for-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-titles\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T20:14:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Boy, that was surprisingly hard. I had to make a list and then cross\noff till I had only 10 left, and I might have chosen a couple of\nothers on a different day.\n\nI wound up voting for BotNS (of course), the Chronicles of Thomas\nCovenant (it has its problems but it sparked a revolution in \"heroic\"\nfantasy), Dhalgren (also of course), Doomsday Book, The Female Man,\nLeft Hand of Darkness, the Night's Dawn trilogy, Perdido Street\nStation, and the Sandman.\n\nOn another day I might have picked Bridge of Birds, Canticle for\nLiebowitz, or Lord of Light." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:\nAlready have!? I have to say, some of the books on the list are pretty\nterrible, and shouldn't be considered for best of anything. There are also\nsome excellent candidates that are missing entirely from the list. Oh well.\n\nAlso, it looks like you can vote multiple times by simply reloading the\npage. Not sure if all the votes count, but it seems like it.\n\nOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Jordon Flato \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Time to participate in the second round of selection folks. ?There are\ngood choices on the list, and you can select 10. ?Only 1 Wolfe that I\nnoticed (BotNS). ?Go and vote!\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138894873/vote-for-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-titles\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T20:29:30+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://theorangeview.net/2011/08/nprs-flawed-best-scifi-and-fantasy-poll/\n\n\nInteresting point about the poll ..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nBoy, that was surprisingly hard. I had to make a list and then cross\noff till I had only 10 left, and I might have chosen a couple of\nothers on a different day.\n\nI wound up voting for BotNS (of course), the Chronicles of Thomas\nCovenant (it has its problems but it sparked a revolution in \"heroic\"\nfantasy), Dhalgren (also of course), Doomsday Book, The Female Man,\nLeft Hand of Darkness, the Night's Dawn trilogy, Perdido Street\nStation, and the Sandman.\n\nOn another day I might have picked Bridge of Birds, Canticle for\nLiebowitz, or Lord of Light.\n\n\nOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Already have! I have to say, some of the books on the list are pretty\nterrible, and shouldn't be considered for best of anything. There are\nalso\nsome excellent candidates that are missing entirely from the list. Oh\nwell.\n\nAlso, it looks like you can vote multiple times by simply reloading the\npage. Not sure if all the votes count, but it seems like it.\n\nOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Jordon Flato \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Time to participate in the second round of selection folks. There are\ngood choices on the list, and you can select 10. Only 1 Wolfe that I\nnoticed (BotNS). Go and vote!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138894873/vote-for-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-titles\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Greg Bates", "address": "gregory.a.bates at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-03T23:29:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I didn't see Thomas Covenant, or else I would've taken off ASOIAF and put it\non. I went with TBoTNS, Dhalgren, Dune, The Left Hand of Darkness, VALIS,\nLord of the Rings, Neuromancer, Perdido Street Station, The Prince of\nNothing, and ASOIAF." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:29 PM, Antonin Scriabin\nwrote:\nhttp://theorangeview.net/2011/08/nprs-flawed-best-scifi-and-fantasy-poll/\n\n\nInteresting point about the poll ...\n\n\nOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Boy, that was surprisingly hard. I had to make a list and then cross\noff till I had only 10 left, and I might have chosen a couple of\nothers on a different day.\n\nI wound up voting for BotNS (of course), the Chronicles of Thomas\nCovenant (it has its problems but it sparked a revolution in \"heroic\"\nfantasy), Dhalgren (also of course), Doomsday Book, The Female Man,\nLeft Hand of Darkness, the Night's Dawn trilogy, Perdido Street\nStation, and the Sandman.\n\nOn another day I might have picked Bridge of Birds, Canticle for\nLiebowitz, or Lord of Light.\n\n\nOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 12:52 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Already have! I have to say, some of the books on the list are pretty\nterrible, and shouldn't be considered for best of anything. There are\nalso\nsome excellent candidates that are missing entirely from the list. Oh\nwell.\n\nAlso, it looks like you can vote multiple times by simply reloading the\npage. Not sure if all the votes count, but it seems like it.\n\nOn Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Jordon Flato ", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T02:09:47+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I went with\n\n1. Book of the New Sun\n2. Gentleman Bastards (Lies of Locke Lamora)\n3. Prince of Nothing\n4. Song of Ice and Fire\n5. Chronicles of Amber\n6. Conan\n7. Black Company\n8. Elric\n9. The Left Hand of Darkness\n10. Anathem\n\nI felt bad leaving off Leiber (was he even on there?), Anathem, and\nmaybe Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles, and Memory, Sorrow and Thorn,\nbut... well... I could only pick so many, and I picked those that had\neither the best intellectual value (Wolfe, Bakker, Stephenson) or the\nlargest influence on fantasy writing (Moorcock, Martin, Cook).\n\nLH\n\nI guess that says a lot about me and my tastes, huh?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312428381.59699.YahooMailClassic@web161819.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T03:26:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Wed, 8/3/11, Lane Haygood wrote:\nFrom: Lane Haygood \nSubject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 7:09 PM\nI went with\n\n1. Book of the New Sun\n2. Gentleman Bastards (Lies of Locke Lamora)\n3. Prince of Nothing\n4. Song of Ice and Fire\n5. Chronicles of Amber\n6. Conan\n7. Black Company\n8. Elric\n9. The Left Hand of Darkness\n10. Anathem" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " You know, I liked a lot of these but inexplicably I absolutely hated Anathem, i honestly thought it was one of the worst books I ever read, and I liked Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon. I was variously bored, apathetic, and just bothered by it. Can anyone explain why it was so popular? I don't find Stephenson a lyrical or memorable prose writer, I don't find his characters fleshed out in that one, I don't think a lot of the philosophy was applied correctly, mathetmatically or otherwise, and it was kind of a boring surface story. did I miss something? \n\nI don't remember the order but I put New Sun, Amber, song of ice and fire, bridge of birds, elric (but I really think some of Moorcock's other stuff is better), Norstrilia, more than human, malazan, martian chronicles, and lord of light (because its better than Amber but not as likely to win anything). Could easily have chosen a lot of other stuff, too." } ] }, { "message_id": "<7C686EB8-C4E9-46F9-AAB5-02FF3194B211@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T03:32:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<1312428381.59699.YahooMailClassic@web161819.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "See, I've tried to read the Malazan books multiple times and just can't get into them. And I listened to Anathem as an audiobook, which may have helped. Stephenson's use of philosophy was surface-level at best, and I won't comment on the math, but it really \"stuck with me\" and had me thinking about universality and Platonism long after I finished. \n\nReally, in terms of pure prose, no one can hold a candle to Wolfe, LeGuin, Zelazny or Lieber (were the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser books on there?), but newcomers like Scott Lynch always get me excited to read their stuff. I think he and Jim Butcher display the greatest amount of potential among the new guard, so we will see how they develop. \n\nI also left off a lot of authors I enjoy but whom I haven't read enough of, like Delaney and Vinge. I need to fix it, but the time!\n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:26 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n--- On Wed, 8/3/11, Lane Haygood wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: Lane Haygood \nSubject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 7:09 PM\nI went with\n\n1. Book of the New Sun\n2. Gentleman Bastards (Lies of Locke Lamora)\n3. Prince of Nothing\n4. Song of Ice and Fire\n5. Chronicles of Amber\n6. Conan\n7. Black Company\n8. Elric\n9. The Left Hand of Darkness\n10. Anathem" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You know, I liked a lot of these but inexplicably I absolutely hated Anathem, i honestly thought it was one of the worst books I ever read, and I liked Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon. I was variously bored, apathetic, and just bothered by it. Can anyone explain why it was so popular? I don't find Stephenson a lyrical or memorable prose writer, I don't find his characters fleshed out in that one, I don't think a lot of the philosophy was applied correctly, mathetmatically or otherwise, and it was kind of a boring surface story. did I miss something? \n\nI don't remember the order but I put New Sun, Amber, song of ice and fire, bridge of birds, elric (but I really think some of Moorcock's other stuff is better), Norstrilia, more than human, malazan, martian chronicles, and lord of light (because its better than Amber but not as likely to win anything). Could easily have chosen a lot of other stuff, too.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312429281.89630.YahooMailNeo@web121010.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T03:41:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<7C686EB8-C4E9-46F9-AAB5-02FF3194B211@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The Malazan books hit their stride for me around the end of the second book. And the third book was simply amazing. I kept at them because of some friends who swore by them, but I had the same reaction. I was a bit bored and bemused by the first book, and the second book seemed uneven and even just intentionally repulsive at points. And I know it sounds odd that if you just wait 2000 pages, it gets really good, but...it does. I never would have kept reading, though, if it hadn't been for other people pushing me (and for just wanting to know what they kept talking about). I actually think that Erikson's friend Ian Esselmont is a better writer, but his take on their world is decidedly less epic and much more personal...which is probably what that huge story needs.\n\n\n\n\nSee, I've tried to read the Malazan books multiple times and just can't get into them. And I listened to Anathem as an audiobook, which may have helped. Stephenson's use of philosophy was surface-level at best, and I won't comment on the math, but it really \"stuck with me\" and had me thinking about universality and Platonism long after I finished. \n\nReally, in terms of pure prose, no one can hold a candle to Wolfe, LeGuin, Zelazny or Lieber (were the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser books on there?), but newcomers like Scott Lynch always get me excited to read their stuff. I think he and Jim Butcher display the greatest amount of potential among the new guard, so we will see how they develop. \n\nI also left off a lot of authors I enjoy but whom I haven't read enough of, like Delaney and Vinge. I need to fix it, but the time!\n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:26 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\n\n--- On Wed, 8/3/11, Lane Haygood wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: Lane Haygood \nSubject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 7:09 PM\nI went with\n\n1. Book of the New Sun\n2. Gentleman Bastards (Lies of Locke Lamora)\n3. Prince of Nothing\n4. Song of Ice and Fire\n5. Chronicles of Amber\n6. Conan\n7. Black Company\n8. Elric\n9. The Left Hand of Darkness\n10. Anathem" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You know, I liked a lot of these but inexplicably I absolutely hated Anathem, i honestly thought it was one of the worst books I ever read, and I liked Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon. I was variously bored, apathetic, and just bothered by it. Can anyone explain why it was so popular? I don't find Stephenson a lyrical or memorable prose writer, I don't find his characters fleshed out in that one, I don't think a lot of the philosophy was applied correctly, mathetmatically or otherwise, and it was kind of a boring surface story. did I miss something? \n\nI don't remember the order but I put New Sun, Amber, song of ice and fire, bridge of birds, elric (but I really think some of Moorcock's other stuff is better), Norstrilia, more than human, malazan, martian chronicles, and lord of light (because its better than Amber but not as likely to win anything). Could easily have chosen a lot of other stuff, too.\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4A14B736-E9B3-4028-AF7E-675E51E69874@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T03:47:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<1312429281.89630.YahooMailNeo@web121010.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes to the more personal bit. I felt the first book tried to hard to be \"The Black Company.\" the characters were all automatons without a hint of Croaker's charm or Lady's earnestness. Hell Goblin and One-Eye weren't fighting! Where is the fun in that?\n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 3, 2011, at 10:41 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:\nThe Malazan books hit their stride for me around the end of the second book. And the third book was simply amazing. I kept at them because of some friends who swore by them, but I had the same reaction. I was a bit bored and bemused by the first book, and the second book seemed uneven and even just intentionally repulsive at points. And I know it sounds odd that if you just wait 2000 pages, it gets really good, but...it does. I never would have kept reading, though, if it hadn't been for other people pushing me (and for just wanting to know what they kept talking about). I actually think that Erikson's friend Ian Esselmont is a better writer, but his take on their world is decidedly less epic and much more personal...which is probably what that huge story needs.\n\n\nFrom: Lane Haygood \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Wednesday, August 3, 2011 10:32 PM\nSubject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\n\nSee, I've tried to read the Malazan books multiple times and just can't get into them. And I listened to Anathem as an audiobook, which may have helped. Stephenson's use of philosophy was surface-level at best, and I won't comment on the math, but it really \"stuck with me\" and had me thinking about universality and Platonism long after I finished. \n\nReally, in terms of pure prose, no one can hold a candle to Wolfe, LeGuin, Zelazny or Lieber (were the Fafhrd and Grey Mouser books on there?), but newcomers like Scott Lynch always get me excited to read their stuff. I think he and Jim Butcher display the greatest amount of potential among the new guard, so we will see how they develop. \n\nI also left off a lot of authors I enjoy but whom I haven't read enough of, like Delaney and Vinge. I need to fix it, but the time!\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\nOn Aug 3, 2011, at 10:26 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "--- On Wed, 8/3/11, Lane Haygood wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "From: Lane Haygood \nSubject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 7:09 PM\nI went with\n\n1. Book of the New Sun\n2. Gentleman Bastards (Lies of Locke Lamora)\n3. Prince of Nothing\n4. Song of Ice and Fire\n5. Chronicles of Amber\n6. Conan\n7. Black Company\n8. Elric\n9. The Left Hand of Darkness\n10. Anathem" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You know, I liked a lot of these but inexplicably I absolutely hated Anathem, i honestly thought it was one of the worst books I ever read, and I liked Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon. I was variously bored, apathetic, and just bothered by it. Can anyone explain why it was so popular? I don't find Stephenson a lyrical or memorable prose writer, I don't find his characters fleshed out in that one, I don't think a lot of the philosophy was applied correctly, mathetmatically or otherwise, and it was kind of a boring surface story. did I miss something? \n\nI don't remember the order but I put New Sun, Amber, song of ice and fire, bridge of birds, elric (but I really think some of Moorcock's other stuff is better), Norstrilia, more than human, malazan, martian chronicles, and lord of light (because its better than Amber but not as likely to win anything). Could easily have chosen a lot of other stuff, too.\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312433361.83574.YahooMailClassic@web161813.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T04:49:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<4A14B736-E9B3-4028-AF7E-675E51E69874@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "--- On Wed, 8/3/11, Lane Haygood wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Lane Haygood \nSubject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\nTo: \"Craig Brewer\" , \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 8:47 PM\n\n\nYes to the more personal bit. I felt the first book tried to hard to be \"The Black Company.\" the characters were all automatons without a hint of Croaker's charm or Lady's earnestness. “Hell Goblin and One-Eye weren't fighting! Where is the fun in that”\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\nOn Aug 3, 2011, at 10:41 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:\n\n\n\n\n\nThe Malazan books hit their stride for me around the end of the second book. And the third book was simply amazing. I kept at them because of some friends who swore by them, but I had the same reaction. I was a bit bored and bemused by the first book, and the second book seemed uneven and even just intentionally repulsive at points. And I know it sounds odd that if you just wait 2000 pages, it gets really good, but...it does. I never would have kept reading, though, if it hadn't been for other people pushing me (and for just wanting to know what they kept talking about). I actually think that Erikson's friend Ian Esselmont is a better writer, but his take on their world is decidedly less epic and much more personal...which is probably what that huge story needs.\nObviously I liked Malazan or I wouldn't have put it on my list, but I actually really really dug the 1st book for some of the nice little touches and the overall expository style, like a thief breaking into a girl he likes room, an injured wizard inexplicably becoming a little tom thumb wooden doll, multiple assassins in a rooftop chase, and for some reason the style was attractive to me in a way that a lot of the Black Company books weren't (I liked them, but I tend to like particular parts of them more than the whole, like Croaker in the statue saying something like \"and you all live again\" - very touching). \n\nI just really liked the actual prose style of Gardens of the Moon and the way explanations of how the magical system works were pretty much elided but still seemed consistently interesting, as well as the way the motivations of the characters were revealed.\n\nI still haven't found anything modern that rivals the joy I get from Wolfe, but Erikson did leave an impression on me for some reason, and the first of his books is maybe my favorite of them (nobody else likes it that much though, I guess). " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312434029.70171.YahooMailNeo@web121015.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T05:00:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<1312433361.83574.YahooMailClassic@web161813.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc, I have two good friends who read them as they came out, even ordering them from Canadian and UK outlets since they came out a month or so earlier. They each loved the first book for the same reasons you gave. Maybe the difference was finding it themselves versus me coming along after, being told it was good, and expecting it to unfold itself for me.\n\n\nI suppose there is a touch of Wolfean-ism to how he only unfolds the larger backstory (and the cosmos) in pieces and even gives a number of red herrings along the way. So much is simply hinted at rather than explained, even towards the end, that a lot of the larger story seems to work by implication as much by exposition. Of course, it could also just be that the thing was so big, I couldn't keep it all in my head long enough to make it seem like there was more than implication..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Wed, 8/3/11, Lane Haygood wrote:\nFrom: Lane Haygood \nSubject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\nTo: \"Craig Brewer\" , \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Wednesday, August 3, 2011, 8:47 PM\n\n\nYes to the more personal bit. I felt the first book tried to hard to be \"The Black Company.\" the characters were all automatons without a hint of Croaker's charm or Lady's earnestness. “Hell Goblin and One-Eye weren't fighting! Where is the fun in that”\n\nSent from my iPhone\n\nOn Aug 3, 2011, at 10:41 PM, Craig Brewer wrote:\n\n\nThe Malazan books hit their stride for me around the end of the second book. And the third book was simply amazing. I kept at them because of some friends who swore by them, but I had the same reaction. I was a bit bored and bemused by the first book, and the second book seemed uneven and even just intentionally repulsive at points. And I know it sounds odd that if you just wait 2000 pages, it gets really good, but...it does. I never would have kept reading, though, if it hadn't been for other people pushing me (and for just wanting to know what they kept talking about). I actually think that Erikson's friend Ian Esselmont is a better writer, but his take on their world is decidedly less epic and much more personal...which is probably what that huge story needs." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Obviously I liked Malazan or I wouldn't have put it on my list, but I actually really really dug the 1st book for some of the nice little touches and the overall expository style, like a thief breaking into a girl he likes room, an injured wizard inexplicably becoming a little tom thumb wooden doll, multiple assassins in a rooftop chase, and for some reason the style was attractive to me in a way that a lot of the Black Company books weren't (I liked them, but I tend to like particular parts of them more than the whole, like Croaker in the statue saying something like \"and you all live again\" - very touching). \n\nI just really liked the actual prose style of Gardens of the Moon and the way explanations of how the magical system works were pretty much elided but still seemed consistently interesting, as well as the way the motivations of the characters were revealed.\n\nI still haven't found anything modern that rivals the joy I get from Wolfe, but Erikson did leave an impression on me for some reason, and the first of his books is maybe my favorite of them (nobody else likes it that much though, I guess). " } ] }, { "message_id": "<7EDA9CB3F4304F71843740BF3D26ECF6@jill>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T14:18:17+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I picked some I liked and remembered rather than trying to adhere to \nobjctive standards of quality:\n\nBook of the New Sun\nThomas Covenant\nCulture Series\nDay of the Triffids\nA Fire Upon the Deep\nGormenghast\nHyperion\nJonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell\nJourney to the Centre of the Earth\nUbik\n\nIf I had another vote I'd probably give it to Stand on Zanzibar.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T14:22:31+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<7EDA9CB3F4304F71843740BF3D26ECF6@jill>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I picked a smattering of favorites:\n\nGravity's Rainbow\nThe Book of the New Sun\nThe Baroque Cycle\nDune Chronicles\nChildhood's End" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 10:18 AM, Gerry Quinn wrote:\nI picked some I liked and remembered rather than trying to adhere to\nobjctive standards of quality:\n\n\nBook of the New Sun\nThomas Covenant\nCulture Series\nDay of the Triffids\nA Fire Upon the Deep\nGormenghast\nHyperion\nJonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell\nJourney to the Centre of the Earth\nUbik\n\nIf I had another vote I'd probably give it to Stand on Zanzibar.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Robin B. Smith", "address": "robinbsmith at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T15:22:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<1312434029.70171.YahooMailNeo@web121015.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hi everyone,\n\nI'm a Wolfe devotee and a lurking URTH subscriber and I'd be interested in\nyour opinions on a few titles that I selected for my Top 10, but which I did\nnot see included on your lists above: The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons,\nThe Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick, The Sirens of Titan by Kurt\nVonnegut, Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, The Once and Future King by TH\nWhite, Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner, and The Worm Ouroboros by ER\nEdison\n\n\nFor the record it's been a pleasure spectating your Wolfean discussions!\n\nRobin" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T15:25:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have yet to read *The* *Hyperion Cantos*, though it has been tentatively\non my large to-read list for a while. I wasn't terribly impressed by *Ender's\nGame*. I don't think it was bad, necessarily, but it did nothing to grab my\nattention. I haven't read any of Orson Scott Card's other books, kind of as\na result. *The Once and Future King* is fantastic! That was one of my\nfavorite books when I was in my teens, and it is overdue for a re-read." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Robin B. Smith wrote:\nHi everyone,\n\nI'm a Wolfe devotee and a lurking URTH subscriber and I'd be interested in\nyour opinions on a few titles that I selected for my Top 10, but which I did\nnot see included on your lists above: The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons,\nThe Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick, The Sirens of Titan by Kurt\nVonnegut, Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, The Once and Future King by TH\nWhite, Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner, and The Worm Ouroboros by ER\nEdison\n\n\nFor the record it's been a pleasure spectating your Wolfean discussions!\n\nRobin\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T15:32:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The thing about the Malazan books is, they're both huge-scale and\nminutely-detailed. This seems paradoxical, but it isn't; Erikson is\ndealing with huge cosmic concepts, but dealing with their effects on\nthe ground. They're war novels where the grunts and the generals get\nequal time, not something you see every day.\n\nThey're also brutal, _brutal_ books. Major characters die\nunexpectedly, even meaninglessly. There's a certain kind of\nmeaninglessness to the whole cosmology, actually: it's \"as below, so\nabove\" applied to existentialism.\n\nThe real achievement is the worldbuilding. Tolkien used facets of\nlinguistics to create a sense of ancientness; Erikson uses facets of\narchaeology. It seems like you can't go anywhere in his world without\nstumbling over the ruins of an ancient civilization." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4E3ABE6C.8010103@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "António Pedro Marques", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T15:44:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<7EDA9CB3F4304F71843740BF3D26ECF6@jill>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Am I a worse person on account of having placed a tick next to Lensman?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<870EF109-00BA-4926-8B47-B06121C905A4@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T15:47:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<4E3ABE6C.8010103@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Not necessarily. They are classics. I just couldn't get past the cultural context in which they were written. They felt like a 1940s-50s cop show aboard spaceships. Vaguely, unsettlingly sexist/racist, though probably unintentionally so. \n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 4, 2011, at 10:44 AM, Ant?nio Pedro Marques wrote:\nAm I a worse person on account of having placed a tick next to Lensman?\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312474105.53248.YahooMailNeo@web121002.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T16:08:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Absolutely. That's probably why my favorite book of the series was the third. On the one hand, it was just so monumentally tragic in all kinds of ways. But at the same time, you have this sense of complex historical depth mixed with that tragedy: the Tlan Imass story was incredibly moving to me. The hopelessness of the whole thing can get to you, though, especially when you realize that the central conflict isn't necessarily any kind of \"good vs. evil\" thing but is just more political maneuvering among powers. Existentialism seems right, since you have gods losing their faith and mortals constantly trying to live out some kind of \"amor fati\" in the midst of meaningless chaos.\n\n\n\n\nThe thing about the Malazan books is, they're both huge-scale and\nminutely-detailed. This seems paradoxical, but it isn't; Erikson is\ndealing with huge cosmic concepts, but dealing with their effects on\nthe ground. They're war novels where the grunts and the generals get\nequal time, not something you see every day.\n\nThey're also brutal, _brutal_ books. Major characters die\nunexpectedly, even meaninglessly. There's a certain kind of\nmeaninglessness to the whole cosmology, actually: it's \"as below, so\nabove\" applied to existentialism.\n\nThe real achievement is the worldbuilding. Tolkien used facets of\nlinguistics to create a sense of ancientness; Erikson uses facets of\narchaeology. It seems like you can't go anywhere in his world without\nstumbling over the ruins of an ancient civilization." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T18:34:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " ----- Original Message ----- \n From: Robin B. Smith \n Hi everyone, \n\n\n I'm a Wolfe devotee and a lurking URTH subscriber and I'd be interested in your opinions on a few titles that I selected for my Top 10, but which I did not see included on your lists above: The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, The Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick, The Sirens of Titan by Kurt Vonnegut, Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, The Once and Future King by TH White, Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner, and The Worm Ouroboros by ER Edison\nI mentioned a couple. The Hyperion Cantos were on my list, and Stand on Zanzibar nearly made it.\n\nThe Cantos are Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion. [Simmons later wrote two more in the same universe, named after Endymion, but not as good.] Hyperion is an unusually structured book, with six or seven distinct parts telling the stories of various individuals. The sequel is more conventional in structure. They are large-scale far future novels with interstellar warfare, mysterious AIs, time travel, and suchlike. People who like Wolfe will probably like these too. Certainly I would strongly recommend them.\n\nStand on Zanzibar is an oldish book, written in the Sixties I think, and set in an overpopulated future. Nonetheless it's quite cheerful by Brunner's standards. It's a long time since I read it and I don't remember details, but I think it would probably be a good read even today.\n\nI didn't notice The Once and Future King on the list. It's a retelling of the story of King Arthur - I recall it as pretty good.\n\nEnders Game is an expansion of the short story of the same name. I only read the short story. But I did read Speaker for the Dead, a sequel to the expansion, which I enjoyed.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<6BD8D76C-1515-4828-B500-E6A356312CD5@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "Lane Haygood", "address": "lhaygood at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T18:46:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Stand on Zanzibar is one of my favorite books ever. A monument of literature, with an inventive perspectiveless style that perfectly presages modern information overload. I can't say enough great about this book. I've worn out four copies: a trade paperback from the 70s that my mom had, a version from the 90s, and two reissues. \n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 4, 2011, at 1:34 PM, \"Gerry Quinn\" wrote:\n----- Original Message -----\nFrom: Robin B. Smith\nHi everyone,\n\nI'm a Wolfe devotee and a lurking URTH subscriber and I'd be interested in your opinions on a few titles that I selected for my Top 10, but which I did not see included on your lists above: The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, The Man in the High Castle by Philip K. Dick, The Sirens of Titan by Kurt Vonnegut, Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card, The Once and Future King by TH White, Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner, and The Worm Ouroboros by ER Edison\nI mentioned a couple. The Hyperion Cantos were on my list, and Stand on Zanzibar nearly made it.\n \nThe Cantos are Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion. [Simmons later wrote two more in the same universe, named after Endymion, but not as good.] Hyperion is an unusually structured book, with six or seven distinct parts telling the stories of various individuals. The sequel is more conventional in structure. They are large-scale far future novels with interstellar warfare, mysterious AIs, time travel, and suchlike. People who like Wolfe will probably like these too. Certainly I would strongly recommend them.\n \nStand on Zanzibar is an oldish book, written in the Sixties I think, and set in an overpopulated future. Nonetheless it's quite cheerful by Brunner's standards. It's a long time since I read it and I don't remember details, but I think it would probably be a good read even today.\n \nI didn't notice The Once and Future King on the list. It's a retelling of the story of King Arthur - I recall it as pretty good.\n \nEnders Game is an expansion of the short story of the same name. I only read the short story. But I did read Speaker for the Dead, a sequel to the expansion, which I enjoyed.\n \n- Gerry Quinn\n \n \n \n \n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1312491298.79119.YahooMailRC@web114713.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-08-04T20:54:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I liked/Hyperion/, but was disappointed by the sequel. I seem to recall that \nthe mysteries were better than the explanations, which I seem to recall \ncontained a lot of quantum double-talk.\n\nI liked The Man in the High Castle, but Through a Scanner Darkly, VALIS, and The \nTransmigration of Timothy Archer are more to my taste.\n\n/The Sirens of Titan/ bored me when I was a teenager. I greatly preferred \n/Cat's Cradle/ and /Slaughterhouse 5/--now there's a book I don't want to \nreread.\n\n/Ender's Game/--I remember liking the original story, but I don't think the rest \nof the book (or the series) quite measured up.\n\n/The Once and Future King/ and /Stand on Zanzibar/ were favorites of my teen \nyears (SoZ a couple years later). I could easily have put either of those on my \nlist. Pace Gerry Quinn, I don't remember anything the slightest bit cheerful \nabout SoZ. And pace Lane Haygood, the method is a lot like what John Dos Passos \ndid in U.S.A. in the '30s. (Or so I've read--I've only glanced at U.S.A., but \nit looks very similar.)\n\n/The Worm Ouroboros/ strikes me as as doing a set of cliches as well as they can \nbe done, with an unexpected turn to horror leaving a bad taste in my mouth.\n\nMy choices:\n\nThe Book of the New Sun\nCat's Cradle\nThe Caves of Steel\nChildhood's End\nThe Chronicles of Amber (hoping that means only the first five)\nThe Demolished Man\nThe Left Hand of Darkness\nLittle, Big\nThe Moon is a Harsh Mistress\nNeuromancer\n\nLots of award winners there. I must have conventional tastes. And what is it \nabout the first half of the alphabet?\n\nJerry Friedman\n\nFrom: Robin B. Smith \n\nHi everyone," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I'm a Wolfe devotee and a lurking URTH subscriber and I'd be interested in your \nopinions on a few titles that I selected for my Top 10, but which I did not see \nincluded on your lists above: The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons, The Man in the \nHigh Castle by Philip K. Dick, The Sirens of Titan by Kurt Vonnegut, Ender's \nGame by Orson Scott Card, The Once and Future King by TH White, Stand on \nZanzibar by John Brunner, and The Worm Ouroboros by ER Edison\n\n\n\n\nFor the record it's been a pleasure spectating your Wolfean discussions!\n\n\nRobin" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "davidd at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2011-08-04T22:52:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<1312491298.79119.YahooMailRC@web114713.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, 4 Aug 2011, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n/The Worm Ouroboros/ strikes me as as doing a set of cliches as well as they can\nbe done, with an unexpected turn to horror leaving a bad taste in my mouth." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think that it is supposed to be a happy ending, actually ;)\n\nAbout the top-10 list, I overlap with everyone else, except I included\n_The Last Unicorn_\n_Riddley Walker_\n\nI think there should be \"10 most fun books\", as well as \"10 most \nsignificant books\". I wanted to vote for _The Cyberiad_, any Robert \nSheckley...\n\n\nCheers, David Duffy." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2011-08-05T13:44:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<1312491298.79119.YahooMailRC@web114713.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " ----- Original Message ----- \n From: Jerry Friedman \n To: The Urth Mailing List \n Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2011 9:54 PM\n Subject: Re: (urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time\n\n\n I liked /Hyperion/, but was disappointed by the sequel. I seem to recall that the mysteries were better than the explanations, which I seem to recall contained a lot of quantum double-talk.\n\nI liked the sequel - I thought it explained things quite well. The story was quite Wolfean, in fact, and I found the ideas reasonably plausible by SF standards. The idea is that multiple universes exist, but at the end of time there is contention for a preferred final state of the universal wave function, and the Techno Core is arrayed against the humans in vying to achieve their preferred state. The Shrike is an avatar sent into the past by the Techno Core in pursuit of Jesus Christ, the human avatar of Empathy.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20110805160509.WHTT3924.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>", "from": { "name": "James B. Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2011-08-05T16:05:12+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Anathem (was Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "<1312428381.59699.YahooMailClassic@web161819.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Marc rote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " You know, I liked a lot of these but inexplicably I absolutely \nhated Anathem, i honestly thought it was one of the worst books I \never read, and I liked Snow Crash, Diamond Age, and Cryptonomicon. \nI was variously bored, apathetic, and just bothered by it. Can \nanyone explain why it was so popular?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " It is IMO clearly Harry Potter Book 8. The kids are one year \nolder. The setting is different, of course, yet similar, with math \nfor magick; and the characters are very similar. Think of it in those \nterms and you might like it better.\n I also thought that it hung together better than The Diamond \nAge, which was messy with things going off in too many directions, \nthough the central story was delightful.\n\nJim Jordan\n\n\n\n\n\n\nJames B. Jordan\nDirector, Biblical Horizons\nBox 1096\nNiceville, FL 32588\nhttp://www.biblicalhorizons.com " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-08-05T16:09:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Anathem (was Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all\n\ttime", "in_reply_to": "<20110805160509.WHTT3924.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:05 AM, James B. Jordan wrote:\n????????It is IMO clearly Harry Potter Book 8. The kids are one year older.\nThe setting is different, of course, yet similar, with math for magick; and\nthe characters are very similar. Think of it in those terms and you might\nlike it better." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "H'mmm. I would never have thought of that but it sort of works.\n\nI really enjoyed Anathem for what it was -- an alternate-world novel\nwith a reasonably interesting premise. When the (spoily)s show up it\nweakens the story a bit." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20110805161420.IPMQ32466.eastrmfepo202.cox.net@eastrmimpo01.cox.net>", "from": { "name": "James B. Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2011-08-05T16:14:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No Jack Vance? Why should I even vote? Who comes up with a list like this?\n\nBut it did have Riddley Walker.\n\nJim Jordan" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 02:48 PM 8/3/2011, you wrote:\nTime to participate in the second round of selection folks. There \nare good choices on the list, and you can select 10. Only 1 Wolfe \nthat I noticed (BotNS). Go and vote!\n\nhttp://www.npr.org/2011/08/02/138894873/vote-for-top-100-science-fiction-fantasy-titles\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20110805161627.BOQR3909.eastrmfepo101.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>", "from": { "name": "James B. Jordan", "address": "jbjordan4 at cox.net" }, "date": "2011-08-05T16:16:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Anathem (was Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all\n time", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "At 11:09 AM 8/5/2011, you wrote:\nOn Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 9:05 AM, James B. Jordan wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " It is IMO clearly Harry Potter Book 8. The kids are one year older.\nThe setting is different, of course, yet similar, with math for magick; and\nthe characters are very similar. Think of it in those terms and you might\nlike it better." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "H'mmm. I would never have thought of that but it sort of works." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I'm about as certain as I can be that it was deliberate. The Potter \nbooks advance year by year, and these kids are one year older. And \nthere are other pointers. If he were not intending that, it is \ncertainly a coincidence.\n\nJim Jordan, who was once a Nutria" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I really enjoyed Anathem for what it was -- an alternate-world novel\nwith a reasonably interesting premise. When the (spoily)s show up it\nweakens the story a bit.\n\n--\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Ryan Dunn", "address": "ryan at liftingfaces.com" }, "date": "2011-08-05T16:28:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Anathem (was Round 2 of NPR top 100 sci-fi books of all\n\ttime", "in_reply_to": "<20110805160509.WHTT3924.eastrmfepo103.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Aug 5, 2011, at 12:05 PM, \"James B. Jordan\" wrote:\nI also thought that it hung together better than The Diamond Age, which was messy with things going off in too many directions, though the central story was delightful." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Totally agree about Diamond Age. The Nell story was absolutely terrific, as was the world building. But then somehow Hackworth ends up in a ritual masturbation in some submarine tunnels, and you begin to wonder whether the central plot stopped holding the author's own interest.\n\n...ryan" } ] } ] }