{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6063", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6063, "subject": "Return to the Whorl", "messages": 8, "voices": 6, "first": "2011-10-11T11:43:05+00:00", "last": "2011-10-12T23:20:24+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "larry miller", "address": "biglar1984 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-10-11T11:43:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Almost done with my reread of RttW. Haven't read it since I bought\nthe omnibus from the scifi bookclub years ago. I forgot how\nirritating Pigs dialogue is. Can anyone explain the secret of the\nInhumi to me? Either I am overthinking it or missed the point\ncompletely. Guess I was wrong about Scylla of the Whorl and Scylla of\nUrth being the same entity. Forgot all about Scylla making the deal\nwith the undine after traveling to Nessus with Horn. After Im done I\nthink its time to revisit Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Tim O'Donnell", "address": "timodonn at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-10-11T13:50:59+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "As far as I am aware the secret of the Inhumi is essentially the Golden\nRule.\nIf we were nicer to each other they could not be feed on us. As they absorb\ntheir\ntraits from their hosts they absorb their deceptiveness and cruelty from\nhumans.\n\nIf we were nicer to us sure they would still be a danger, but the same level\nof danger\nas a snake or some other deadly animal.\n________________________________________________________\n________________________________________________________\nDate: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:43:05 -0400\nFrom: larry miller \nTo: urth at lists.urth.net\nSubject: (urth) Return to the Whorl\nMessage-ID:\n \nContent-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1\n\nAlmost done with my reread of RttW. Haven't read it since I bought\nthe omnibus from the scifi bookclub years ago. I forgot how\nirritating Pigs dialogue is. Can anyone explain the secret of the\nInhumi to me? Either I am overthinking it or missed the point\ncompletely. Guess I was wrong about Scylla of the Whorl and Scylla of\nUrth being the same entity. Forgot all about Scylla making the deal\nwith the undine after traveling to Nessus with Horn. After Im done I\nthink its time to revisit Book of the Long Sun." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4E945129.3020600@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-10-11T14:22:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "They feed on us because we feed on each other. The animal inhumi would \nfeed on us but their offspring would not." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/11/2011 8:50 AM, Tim O'Donnell wrote:\nAs far as I am aware the secret of the Inhumi is essentially the \nGolden Rule.\nIf we were nicer to each other they could not be feed on us. As they \nabsorb their\ntraits from their hosts they absorb their deceptiveness and cruelty \nfrom humans.\nIf we were nicer to us sure they would still be a danger, but the same \nlevel of danger\nas a snake or some other deadly animal." } ] }, { "message_id": "<1318373862.96862.YahooMailNeo@web114712.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-10-11T22:57:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": "<4E945129.3020600@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: James Wynn crushtv at gmail.com\nOn 10/11/2011 8:50 AM, Tim O'Donnell wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "As far as I am aware the secret of the Inhumi is essentially the Golden Rule.\nIf we were nicer to each other they could not be feed on us. As they absorb their\ntraits from their hosts they absorb their deceptiveness and cruelty from humans.\nIf we were nicer to us sure they would still be a danger, but the same level of danger\nas a snake or some other deadly animal." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For me, this resonates with the trilogy's theme of parent-child relations. Children absorb traits to some extent from their parents and other adults, so if we were nicer to children--indeed to people in general--they'd be nicer to us." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "They feed on us because we feed on each other. The animal inhumi would feed on us but their offspring would not." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Which would put those offspring in a world of hurt, incidentally. Though /their/ offspring, if any, might go back to feeding on us. The parallel to children may break down here.\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "larry miller", "address": "biglar1984 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-10-12T11:44:13+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": "<1318373862.96862.YahooMailNeo@web114712.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things.\n1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in\nNessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian\nScylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb)\nbelong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its\nrelaunched?" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4E9589F5.7010003@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "António Pedro Marques", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-10-12T12:37:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "larry miller wrote (12-10-2011 12:44):" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things.\n1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in\nNessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian\nScylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb)\nbelong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its\nrelaunched?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Could be." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4E9597E6.8090001@irit.fr>", "from": { "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV", "address": "soloviev at irit.fr" }, "date": "2011-10-12T13:36:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "My personal opinion is that 1) It is related to the idea\nthat for the final resurrection and Last Judgement the soul must be reunited\nwith the body. For this purpose, by the way, the body must be buried and not\nburned, for example. I cannot remember, what is explicitly told on this \nin the Bible,\nbut it is a very strong tradition in Catholic Church and Ortodox \nChristianity.\nGW gives it a sort of a twist - meaning that Scylla-Cilinia on the Long Sun\nWhorl, and even its \"weak copy\" in Oreb can be seen as having a \"chunk \nof its\nmain soul\" and it must be reunited with its body. 2) The deal is that the\nScylla on the red Sun Whorl teaches Horn how to find/call Seawrack\nusing its language and in exchange he brings a piece of soul of Cilinia\nwho was connected with Scylla. 3) Because he thinks that Silk-Horn\nvisiting the Red Sun Whorl as a sort of a ghost (in the Book of the Short\nSun) is Malrubius. 4) I think that it has to return to the Urth (Ushas)\nto repopulate it after the flood.\n\nBest\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "larry miller wrote:\n finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things.\n1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in\nNessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian\nScylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb)\nbelong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its\nrelaunched?\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "larry miller", "address": "biglar1984 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-10-12T23:20:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Return to the Whorl", "in_reply_to": "<4E9597E6.8090001@irit.fr>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is the deal explicetly stated in the text? I totally missed that.\nEarlier in the book Severian talks about Malrubius to Horn. Severian\nhas to know this is the same man visiting him later because Horn asks\nhim about his book. Why would he think Horn is Malrubius now? Did\nyou read the interview where Wolfe says that Horn takes a part in the\nHierodules plans but not a \"Leading\" part? That makes sense if Horn\nleads the returning Human stock who will one day become the\nHierogrammates." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 10/12/11, Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\nMy personal opinion is that 1) It is related to the idea\nthat for the final resurrection and Last Judgement the soul must be reunited\nwith the body. For this purpose, by the way, the body must be buried and not\nburned, for example. I cannot remember, what is explicitly told on this\nin the Bible,\nbut it is a very strong tradition in Catholic Church and Ortodox\nChristianity.\nGW gives it a sort of a twist - meaning that Scylla-Cilinia on the Long Sun\nWhorl, and even its \"weak copy\" in Oreb can be seen as having a \"chunk\nof its\nmain soul\" and it must be reunited with its body. 2) The deal is that the\nScylla on the red Sun Whorl teaches Horn how to find/call Seawrack\nusing its language and in exchange he brings a piece of soul of Cilinia\nwho was connected with Scylla. 3) Because he thinks that Silk-Horn\nvisiting the Red Sun Whorl as a sort of a ghost (in the Book of the Short\nSun) is Malrubius. 4) I think that it has to return to the Urth (Ushas)\nto repopulate it after the flood.\n\nBest\n\nSergei Soloviev\n\nlarry miller wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things.\n1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in\nNessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian\nScylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb)\nbelong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its\nrelaunched?\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }