# Return to the Whorl *The Urth list — 8 messages, 6 voices, 11 Oct 2011* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### larry miller *11 Oct 2011, 11:43* Almost done with my reread of RttW. Haven't read it since I bought the omnibus from the scifi bookclub years ago. I forgot how irritating Pigs dialogue is. Can anyone explain the secret of the Inhumi to me? Either I am overthinking it or missed the point completely. Guess I was wrong about Scylla of the Whorl and Scylla of Urth being the same entity. Forgot all about Scylla making the deal with the undine after traveling to Nessus with Horn. After Im done I think its time to revisit Book of the Long Sun. --- ### Tim O'Donnell *11 Oct 2011, 13:50 · follows larry miller* As far as I am aware the secret of the Inhumi is essentially the Golden Rule. If we were nicer to each other they could not be feed on us. As they absorb their traits from their hosts they absorb their deceptiveness and cruelty from humans. If we were nicer to us sure they would still be a danger, but the same level of danger as a snake or some other deadly animal. ________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2011 07:43:05 -0400 From: larry miller To: urth at lists.urth.net Subject: (urth) Return to the Whorl Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Almost done with my reread of RttW. Haven't read it since I bought the omnibus from the scifi bookclub years ago. I forgot how irritating Pigs dialogue is. Can anyone explain the secret of the Inhumi to me? Either I am overthinking it or missed the point completely. Guess I was wrong about Scylla of the Whorl and Scylla of Urth being the same entity. Forgot all about Scylla making the deal with the undine after traveling to Nessus with Horn. After Im done I think its time to revisit Book of the Long Sun. --- ### James Wynn *11 Oct 2011, 14:22 · in reply to Tim O'Donnell* They feed on us because we feed on each other. The animal inhumi would feed on us but their offspring would not. > On 10/11/2011 8:50 AM, Tim O'Donnell wrote: > As far as I am aware the secret of the Inhumi is essentially the > Golden Rule. > If we were nicer to each other they could not be feed on us. As they > absorb their > traits from their hosts they absorb their deceptiveness and cruelty > from humans. > If we were nicer to us sure they would still be a danger, but the same > level of danger > as a snake or some other deadly animal. --- ### Jerry Friedman *11 Oct 2011, 22:57 · in reply to James Wynn* > From: James Wynn crushtv at gmail.com > On 10/11/2011 8:50 AM, Tim O'Donnell wrote: >> As far as I am aware the secret of the Inhumi is essentially the Golden Rule. >> If we were nicer to each other they could not be feed on us. As they absorb their >> traits from their hosts they absorb their deceptiveness and cruelty from humans. >> If we were nicer to us sure they would still be a danger, but the same level of danger >> as a snake or some other deadly animal. For me, this resonates with the trilogy's theme of parent-child relations. Children absorb traits to some extent from their parents and other adults, so if we were nicer to children--indeed to people in general--they'd be nicer to us. > They feed on us because we feed on each other. The animal inhumi would feed on us but their offspring would not. Which would put those offspring in a world of hurt, incidentally. Though /their/ offspring, if any, might go back to feeding on us. The parallel to children may break down here. Jerry Friedman --- ### larry miller *12 Oct 2011, 11:44 · follows Jerry Friedman* finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things. 1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in Nessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian Scylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb) belong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its relaunched? --- ### António Pedro Marques *12 Oct 2011, 12:37 · in reply to larry miller* larry miller wrote (12-10-2011 12:44): > finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things. > 1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in > Nessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian > Scylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb) > belong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its > relaunched? Could be. --- ### Sergei SOLOVIEV *12 Oct 2011, 13:36 · in reply to larry miller* My personal opinion is that 1) It is related to the idea that for the final resurrection and Last Judgement the soul must be reunited with the body. For this purpose, by the way, the body must be buried and not burned, for example. I cannot remember, what is explicitly told on this in the Bible, but it is a very strong tradition in Catholic Church and Ortodox Christianity. GW gives it a sort of a twist - meaning that Scylla-Cilinia on the Long Sun Whorl, and even its "weak copy" in Oreb can be seen as having a "chunk of its main soul" and it must be reunited with its body. 2) The deal is that the Scylla on the red Sun Whorl teaches Horn how to find/call Seawrack using its language and in exchange he brings a piece of soul of Cilinia who was connected with Scylla. 3) Because he thinks that Silk-Horn visiting the Red Sun Whorl as a sort of a ghost (in the Book of the Short Sun) is Malrubius. 4) I think that it has to return to the Urth (Ushas) to repopulate it after the flood. Best Sergei Soloviev > larry miller wrote: > finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things. > 1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in > Nessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian > Scylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb) > belong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its > relaunched? > _______________________________________________ --- ### larry miller *12 Oct 2011, 23:20 · in reply to Sergei SOLOVIEV* Is the deal explicetly stated in the text? I totally missed that. Earlier in the book Severian talks about Malrubius to Horn. Severian has to know this is the same man visiting him later because Horn asks him about his book. Why would he think Horn is Malrubius now? Did you read the interview where Wolfe says that Horn takes a part in the Hierodules plans but not a "Leading" part? That makes sense if Horn leads the returning Human stock who will one day become the Hierogrammates. > On 10/12/11, Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote: > My personal opinion is that 1) It is related to the idea > that for the final resurrection and Last Judgement the soul must be reunited > with the body. For this purpose, by the way, the body must be buried and not > burned, for example. I cannot remember, what is explicitly told on this > in the Bible, > but it is a very strong tradition in Catholic Church and Ortodox > Christianity. > GW gives it a sort of a twist - meaning that Scylla-Cilinia on the Long Sun > Whorl, and even its "weak copy" in Oreb can be seen as having a "chunk > of its > main soul" and it must be reunited with its body. 2) The deal is that the > Scylla on the red Sun Whorl teaches Horn how to find/call Seawrack > using its language and in exchange he brings a piece of soul of Cilinia > who was connected with Scylla. 3) Because he thinks that Silk-Horn > visiting the Red Sun Whorl as a sort of a ghost (in the Book of the Short > Sun) is Malrubius. 4) I think that it has to return to the Urth (Ushas) > to repopulate it after the flood. > > Best > > Sergei Soloviev > > larry miller wrote: >> finished up RttW and I am still confused about a number of things. >> 1) Why exactly does Scylla want to return to her body buried in >> Nessus? 2) What was the deal she and Horn made with the Megatherian >> Scylla? 3) Why does Severian say the bird (that has to be Oreb) >> belong to Master Malrubius? 4) Where does the Whorl going when its >> relaunched? >> _______________________________________________ ---