# Words and Such art *The Urth list — 18 messages, 7 voices, 25 Oct 2011* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### James Wynn *25 Oct 2011, 17:00* http://liamkruger.tumblr.com/post/11311695396/heyoscarwilde-gene-wolfe-once-did-a-story-about "Gene Wolfe once did a story about astronauts that had birds inside of them. " Which story is he talking about? --- ### Marc Aramini *25 Oct 2011, 17:17 · in reply to James Wynn* leif in the wind > --- On Tue, 10/25/11, James Wynn wrote: > From: James Wynn > Subject: (urth) Words and Such art > To: "The Urth Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 10:00 AM > http://liamkruger.tumblr.com/post/11311695396/heyoscarwilde-gene-wolfe-once-did-a-story-about > "Gene Wolfe once did a story about astronauts that had > birds inside of them. " > > Which story is he talking about? > _______________________________________________ --- ### Daniel Petersen *25 Oct 2011, 17:18 · in reply to James Wynn* There was what I thought was a recent one that was more or less about this called 'Lief in the Wind' - collected in *Stories*, edited by Neil Gaiman. Great idea and a few finely worded moments, but not one of my favourites by Wolfe. -DOJP > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:00 PM, James Wynn wrote: > http://liamkruger.tumblr.com/**post/11311695396/** > heyoscarwilde-gene-wolfe-once-**did-a-story-about > "Gene Wolfe once did a story about astronauts that had birds inside of > them. " > > Which story is he talking about? > ______________________________**_________________ --- ### Daniel Petersen *25 Oct 2011, 17:25 · in reply to Daniel Petersen* Also, why can't the quality and style of the Wolfe-inspired art at this link ever be one of Wolfe's book covers instead of the (what is to me) atrocious genre-inbred kitsch that usually wraps up his literary art that is itself at the opposite end of the spectrum? -DOJP > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel Petersen < > danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: > There was what I thought was a recent one that was more or less about this > called 'Lief in the Wind' - collected in *Stories*, edited by Neil > Gaiman. Great idea and a few finely worded moments, but not one of my > favourites by Wolfe. > > -DOJP > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:00 PM, James Wynn wrote: >> http://liamkruger.tumblr.com/**post/11311695396/** >> heyoscarwilde-gene-wolfe-once-**did-a-story-about >> "Gene Wolfe once did a story about astronauts that had birds inside of >> them. " >> >> Which story is he talking about? >> ______________________________**_________________ --- ### James Wynn *25 Oct 2011, 17:29 · in reply to Daniel Petersen* His short story collections typically are better, but I agree that none are as good as this. Probably, the collections are not as bad because Tor doesn't expect to make a lot of money off them and so the Art Director did not get involved. Wolfe claimed that expectations of increasing sales is the reason the covers of The Book of the New Sun volumes got worse with each release. > On 10/25/2011 12:25 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote: > Also, why can't the quality and style of the Wolfe-inspired art at > this link ever be one of Wolfe's book covers instead of the (what is > to me) atrocious genre-inbred kitsch that usually wraps up his > literary art that is itself at the opposite end of the spectrum? > > -DOJP > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel Petersen > > wrote: > > There was what I thought was a recent one that was more or less > about this called 'Lief in the Wind' - collected in /Stories/, > edited by Neil Gaiman. Great idea and a few finely worded > moments, but not one of my favourites by Wolfe. > > -DOJP > > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:00 PM, James Wynn > wrote: > > http://liamkruger.tumblr.com/post/11311695396/heyoscarwilde-gene-wolfe-once-did-a-story-about > "Gene Wolfe once did a story about astronauts that had birds > inside of them. " > > Which story is he talking about? > _______________________________________________ --- ### Daniel Petersen *25 Oct 2011, 17:50 · in reply to James Wynn* How have I not consciously noticed that before about the short story collections? You're absolutely right, James, and it's heartening. I now see that I had subconsciously registered this all along, but I think my conscious disgust and ire at the series and novel covers was choking out all distinction in my mind, heh. As weirdly plain and bright as that 'Gollancz 50' cover is for Shadow and Claw, I think it might actually be better than most of the others (*definitely* better than the Fantasy Masterworks version [shudder].) -DOJP > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM, James Wynn wrote: > His short story collections typically are better, but I agree that none are > as good as this. > Probably, the collections are not as bad because Tor doesn't expect to make > a lot of money off them and so the Art Director did not get involved. Wolfe > claimed that expectations of increasing sales is the reason the covers of > The Book of the New Sun volumes got worse with each release. > > > On 10/25/2011 12:25 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote: > > Also, why can't the quality and style of the Wolfe-inspired art at this > link ever be one of Wolfe's book covers instead of the (what is to me) > atrocious genre-inbred kitsch that usually wraps up his literary art that is > itself at the opposite end of the spectrum? > > -DOJP > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:18 PM, Daniel Petersen < > danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: >> There was what I thought was a recent one that was more or less about this >> called 'Lief in the Wind' - collected in *Stories*, edited by Neil >> Gaiman. Great idea and a few finely worded moments, but not one of my >> favourites by Wolfe. >> >> -DOJP >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:00 PM, James Wynn wrote: >>> http://liamkruger.tumblr.com/post/11311695396/heyoscarwilde-gene-wolfe-once-did-a-story-about >>> "Gene Wolfe once did a story about astronauts that had birds inside of >>> them. " >>> >>> Which story is he talking about? >>> _______________________________________________ --- ### James Wynn *25 Oct 2011, 17:57 · in reply to Daniel Petersen* The cover of Starwater Strains is surely my favorite. > On 10/25/2011 12:50 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote: > How have I not consciously noticed that before about the short story > collections? You're absolutely right, James, and it's heartening. I > now see that I had subconsciously registered this all along, but I > think my conscious disgust and ire at the series and novel covers was > choking out all distinction in my mind, heh. As weirdly plain and > bright as that 'Gollancz 50' cover is for Shadow and Claw, I think it > might actually be better than most of the others (/definitely/ better > than the Fantasy Masterworks version [shudder].) > -DOJP > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM, James Wynn > wrote: > > His short story collections typically are better, but I agree that > none are as good as this. > Probably, the collections are not as bad because Tor doesn't > expect to make a lot of money off them and so the Art Director did > not get involved. Wolfe claimed that expectations of increasing > sales is the reason the covers of The Book of the New Sun volumes > got worse with each release. --- ### Daniel Petersen *25 Oct 2011, 18:04 · in reply to James Wynn* Hm, out of what I actually own, I guess I might go for Island of Dr Death (purple skull) or Endangered Species (stick wings). This one's probably the worst I own: http://www.saltmanz.com/pictures/albums/Cover%20Scans/Book%20Covers/Storeys%20from%20the%20Old%20Hotel.jpg (The sheer hilarity value is almost worth it.) -DOJP > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:57 PM, James Wynn wrote: > The cover of Starwater Strains is surely my favorite. > > > On 10/25/2011 12:50 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote: > > How have I not consciously noticed that before about the short story > collections? You're absolutely right, James, and it's heartening. I now > see that I had subconsciously registered this all along, but I think my > conscious disgust and ire at the series and novel covers was choking out all > distinction in my mind, heh. As weirdly plain and bright as that 'Gollancz > 50' cover is for Shadow and Claw, I think it might actually be better than > most of the others (*definitely* better than the Fantasy Masterworks > version [shudder].) > > -DOJP > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM, James Wynn wrote: >> His short story collections typically are better, but I agree that none >> are as good as this. >> Probably, the collections are not as bad because Tor doesn't expect to >> make a lot of money off them and so the Art Director did not get involved. >> Wolfe claimed that expectations of increasing sales is the reason the covers >> of The Book of the New Sun volumes got worse with each release. > _______________________________________________ --- ### Antonin Scriabin *25 Oct 2011, 18:13 · in reply to Daniel Petersen* The art for Wolfe's books is so hit and miss! The Richard Bober illustrations for the Long Sun books are awesome, and particular favorites of mine. This one, one the other hand, not so much: http://www.lwcurrey.com/pictures/114676.jpg. As I recall, Severian was the opposite of nonchalant (chalant?) at that particular scene. > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:04 PM, Daniel Petersen < > danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote: > Hm, out of what I actually own, I guess I might go for Island of Dr Death > (purple skull) or Endangered Species (stick wings). This one's probably the > worst I own: > > > > http://www.saltmanz.com/pictures/albums/Cover%20Scans/Book%20Covers/Storeys%20from%20the%20Old%20Hotel.jpg > > > (The sheer hilarity value is almost worth it.) > > -DOJP > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:57 PM, James Wynn wrote: >> The cover of Starwater Strains is surely my favorite. >> >> >> On 10/25/2011 12:50 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote: >> >> How have I not consciously noticed that before about the short story >> collections? You're absolutely right, James, and it's heartening. I now >> see that I had subconsciously registered this all along, but I think my >> conscious disgust and ire at the series and novel covers was choking out all >> distinction in my mind, heh. As weirdly plain and bright as that 'Gollancz >> 50' cover is for Shadow and Claw, I think it might actually be better than >> most of the others (*definitely* better than the Fantasy Masterworks >> version [shudder].) >> >> -DOJP >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM, James Wynn wrote: >>> His short story collections typically are better, but I agree that none >>> are as good as this. >>> Probably, the collections are not as bad because Tor doesn't expect to >>> make a lot of money off them and so the Art Director did not get involved. >>> Wolfe claimed that expectations of increasing sales is the reason the covers >>> of The Book of the New Sun volumes got worse with each release. >> _______________________________________________ --- ### Daniel Petersen *25 Oct 2011, 18:20 · in reply to Antonin Scriabin* Yeah, that is pretty hilarious. And, yeah, I've always those Long Sun covers were not bad - especially compared to most other Solar Cycle stuff. -DOJP --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *25 Oct 2011, 18:20 · in reply to Antonin Scriabin* > Antonin Scriabin wrote: > one, one the other hand, not so much: > http://www.lwcurrey.com/pictures/114676.jpg.? As I recall, Severian was the > opposite of nonchalant (chalant?) at that particular scene. See, now, I actually _like_ that one -- and in fact, the first three Maitz covers for tBotNS. I recognize, in retrospect, that they aren't very good representations of the action, but they are associated in my mind with my first discovery of Wolfe. I agree with who said that the story collections get the best covers. I particularly like -- I don't remember which one it was -- the one with the dog. ``` Dan'l Danehy-Oakes ``` --- ### Antonin Scriabin *25 Oct 2011, 18:24 · in reply to Dan'l Danehy-Oakes* The one with the dog is Starwater Strains. As far as bad representations of the action / plot / setting, this oneis also really bad. > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote: > Antonin Scriabin wrote: >> one, one the other hand, not so much: >> http://www.lwcurrey.com/pictures/114676.jpg. As I recall, Severian was >> the >> opposite of nonchalant (chalant?) at that particular scene. > See, now, I actually _like_ that one -- and in fact, the first three > Maitz covers for tBotNS. I recognize, in retrospect, that they aren't > very good representations of the action, but they are associated in my > mind with my first discovery of Wolfe. > > I agree with who said that the story collections get the best covers. > I particularly like -- I don't remember which one it was -- the one > with the dog. > > -- > Dan'l Danehy-Oakes > _______________________________________________ --- ### James Wynn *25 Oct 2011, 18:38 · in reply to Daniel Petersen* The cover on the original Operation Ares paperback pretty good. The cover on the original paperback for tIoDDaOSaOS was better than the one with the purple skull. I preferred the paperback cover of "Endangered Species" with the giant pollen spore to the stick wings one. Usually, however, the original covers to the Long Sun volumes were atrocious IMO. It's the original edition novels that tend to be the worst offenders. However the original covers and illustrations for The Wizard Knight, Pirate Freedom, and And Evil Guest are very good. Usually, it seems the best his first editions can hope for is to be unoffensive. J. > On 10/25/2011 1:04 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote: > Hm, out of what I actually own, I guess I might go for Island of Dr > Death (purple skull) or Endangered Species (stick wings). This one's > probably the worst I own: > > http://www.saltmanz.com/pictures/albums/Cover%20Scans/Book%20Covers/Storeys%20from%20the%20Old%20Hotel.jpg > > (The sheer hilarity value is almost worth it.) > -DOJP > > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:57 PM, James Wynn > wrote: > > The cover of Starwater Strains is surely my favorite. > > > On 10/25/2011 12:50 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote: >> How have I not consciously noticed that before about the short >> story collections? You're absolutely right, James, and it's >> heartening. I now see that I had subconsciously registered this >> all along, but I think my conscious disgust and ire at the series >> and novel covers was choking out all distinction in my mind, >> heh. As weirdly plain and bright as that 'Gollancz 50' cover is >> for Shadow and Claw, I think it might actually be better than >> most of the others (/definitely/ better than the Fantasy >> Masterworks version [shudder].) >> -DOJP >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:29 PM, James Wynn > > wrote: >> >> His short story collections typically are better, but I agree >> that none are as good as this. >> Probably, the collections are not as bad because Tor doesn't >> expect to make a lot of money off them and so the Art >> Director did not get involved. Wolfe claimed that >> expectations of increasing sales is the reason the covers of >> The Book of the New Sun volumes got worse with each release. > _______________________________________________ --- ### Gerry Quinn *25 Oct 2011, 19:10 · in reply to Antonin Scriabin* From: Antonin Scriabin > The art for Wolfe's books is so hit and miss! The Richard Bober illustrations > for the Long Sun books are awesome, and particular favorites of mine. This > one, one the other hand, not so much: > http://www.lwcurrey.com/pictures/114676.jpg. As I recall, Severian was > the opposite of nonchalant (chalant?) at that particular scene. It’s nice that they did something different. Not so nice that they did it so horribly. [ ] would read on train [x] would not read on train - Gerry Quinn --- ### Gerry Quinn *25 Oct 2011, 19:15 · in reply to Antonin Scriabin* From: Antonin Scriabin > The one with the dog is Starwater Strains. As far as bad representations of > the action / plot / setting, this one is also really bad. It was originally for Fifth Head of Cerberus, for which it’s a nice image except that like loads of versions it has been printed with washed-out colours which really hurt that particular illustration. My Endangered Species cover shows a boat on Gyoll which is quite decent (in every respect, no nude mermaids in sight). - Gerry Quinn --- ### Marc Aramini *25 Oct 2011, 19:25 · in reply to Gerry Quinn* --- On Tue, 10/25/11, Gerry Quinn wrote: From: Gerry Quinn Subject: Re: (urth) Words and Such art To: "The Urth Mailing List" Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 12:10 PM From: Antonin Scriabin > The art for Wolfe's books is so hit and miss!? The Richard Bober illustrations > for the Long Sun books are awesome, and particular favorites of mine. This > one, one the other hand, not so much: > ? http://www.lwcurrey.com/pictures/114676.jpg.? As I recall, Severian was > ? the opposite of nonchalant (chalant?) at that particular scene. It’s nice that they did something different. Not so nice that they did it so horribly. [ ] would read on train [x] would not read on train - Gerry Quinn That was the first Wolfe book I ever saw, I was like in the fourth grade or so and my father's co-worker gave me all his used sci-fi magazines and SFbook club hardback books after he was done with them. Claw of the conciliator, book club hardback with that illustration?- I had to go look for Shadow and buy a used paperback to read it. I might read it on the train just for the snickers, then I could start extolling his literary virtues to the disbelief of my fellow passengers. --- ### Dan'l Danehy-Oakes *25 Oct 2011, 19:26 · in reply to Marc Aramini* I would have no problem reading it or any Wolfe book on a train. But I generally remove the dustwrapper from hardcovers while I read them. > On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 12:25 PM, Marc Aramini wrote: > > > --- On *Tue, 10/25/11, Gerry Quinn * wrote: > > > From: Gerry Quinn > Subject: Re: (urth) Words and Such art > > To: "The Urth Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011, 12:10 PM > > > > > *From:* Antonin Scriabin > ** > > The art for Wolfe's books is so hit and miss! The Richard Bober > illustrations > > for the Long Sun books are awesome, and particular favorites of mine. > This > > one, one the other hand, not so much: > > http://www.lwcurrey.com/pictures/114676.jpg. As I recall, Severian > was > > the opposite of nonchalant (chalant?) at that particular scene. > It’s nice that they did something different. Not so nice that they did > it so horribly. > > [ ] would read on train > [x] would not read on train > > - Gerry Quinn > > > That was the first Wolfe book I ever saw, I was like in the fourth grade > or so and my father's co-worker gave me all his used sci-fi magazines and > SFbook club hardback books after he was done with them. Claw of the > conciliator, book club hardback with that illustration - I had to go look > for Shadow and buy a used paperback to read it. > > I might read it on the train just for the snickers, then I could start > extolling his literary virtues to the disbelief of my fellow passengers. > > _______________________________________________ --- ### Nick Lee *25 Oct 2011, 23:33 · follows Dan'l Danehy-Oakes* You may be looking in the wrong place. By far my favorite cover of Wolfe's work, from a Japanese edition of Claw: http://www.elevenland.com/amano/viewA.php3?picImage=tlaClawOfTheConciliator.jpg Regards, Nick ---