{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6110", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6110, "subject": "Violet = Plutonium", "messages": 13, "voices": 7, "first": "2011-11-13T22:23:55+00:00", "last": "2011-11-15T02:43:50+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-13T22:23:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet = Plutonium", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff wrote:\n\nIt's one thing if Orchid hired a chem to pleasure chem guests the way a\nbrothel might hire boys and girls for different tastes (although\napparently she did not hire boys)." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I don't think chems have anything like what we would call sex. The\nonly thing that disqualifies a chem from seeing the gods is actually\nmaking a child, which takes a year." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The councillors were never very convincing as humans---Patera Quetzal\nkept his secret longer. Lemur reveals his status almost as soon as we\nmeet him. None of the Ayuntamiento ever went out in public anyway, so\nthey had little need to work at fooling anyone and if they did it it's\nnot shown." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Lemur has served under two Caldes. That surely puts his rise to power\nearlier than that of Quetzal. And I take it he deceived them, and the\nvarious commissioners through who he governed." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-14T13:49:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "James Wynn: The tricky part for the councilors was connecting the chems \nconsciousness to the the living councilors. This is easier to do than it \nmight appear because (I propose) chems were made to receive the scanned, \nmemory wiped souls of bios just as the Mainframe is received the scanned \nsouls of Typhon's family and inner court." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI think this is a reasonable supposition. Chems have such individualized\npersonalities. It doesn't seem like an efficient way to make a tool in\nthis manner.\n \nI wonder if this might apply to BotNS. Why would the factory want to program Jonas\nto read fiction during his off hours? This is in contrast to Sidero who is more\nclearly a tool. While he has emotions, I can't imagine him reading Greek mythology\nor Lewis Carroll.\n \nHas there been any mention of the word choice for the nickname Plutonium? Of all\nthe mineral names which might be chosen that is surely one with significance. Did\nthe talus run on fossil or organic fuel? I forget, but surely Chems don't. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<568B29B3ED4943518FB22786B33B4293@Rover>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2011-11-14T14:12:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: Lee Berman " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Has there been any mention of the word choice for the nickname Plutonium? Of all\nthe mineral names which might be chosen that is surely one with significance. Did\nthe talus run on fossil or organic fuel? I forget, but surely Chems don't. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Soldiers, at least, are said to have a nuclear fusion power source.\nAnd Crane says that isotopes are released when a chem blows, not specifying the type of chem, indicating some kind of nuclear power at least.\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC12397.1010103@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-14T14:20:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "James Wynn: The tricky part for the councilors was connecting the chems\nconsciousness to the the living councilors. This is easier to do than it\nmight appear because (I propose) chems were made to receive the scanned,\nmemory wiped souls of bios just as the Mainframe is received the scanned\nsouls of Typhon's family and inner court." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Lee Berman wrote:\n[...] I wonder if this might apply to BotNS. Why would the factory want to program Jonas\nto read fiction during his off hours?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The chems also wear perfume and the original chem owner of Rose's hand \nused to \"practice her hand\". There is a practical reason for them to \nsmell and judge good smells (the females anyway), because they have to \ncook. But this is a convenient way to accomplish the judging part.\n\nUntil now, I did not apply this to Jonas. It seemed unlikely that Wolfe \nwould have thought of this method and done so little with it until the \nmid 90s. Now I'm not so sure. This might explain how Jonas \"becomes\" \nMiles. In truth (according to this theory), Miles *will* become Jonas. \nSeverian's speech to Jonas will be in Jonas's subconscious and sometime \nafter he leaves Sev, he remembers it and does not return. On the other \nhand, it might be simpler to propose that Jonas is made from what is \nleft of Miles's biological parts, and as with Chelle's new arm in \"Home \nFires\" those parts remember.\n\nJ." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-14T15:17:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "<4EC12397.1010103@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff: Lee's comment suggests to me that, since plutonium is \nnever otherwise mentioned but may well be the source of chem energy (i.e., \nthey have nuclear powerplants in the mode of Iron Man's suit), that Sand may be \ncalling Violet something like \"my heart.\" Whether that is flirty or an \nexpression of true love I don't know." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, that's good! Just the track I was onto. I was stuck on plutonium as \nradioactive fuel, so all I could think of by way of analogy was, \"my little chili \npepper\" or something like that. Plutonium as \"my heart\" works quite nicely for\nan atomic powered being. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC13208.2070804@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-11-14T15:21:44+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 11/14/2011 10:17 AM, Lee Berman wrote:\nDavid Stockhoff: Lee's comment suggests to me that, since plutonium is\nnever otherwise mentioned but may well be the source of chem energy (i.e.,\nthey have nuclear powerplants in the mode of Iron Man's suit), that Sand may be\ncalling Violet something like \"my heart.\" Whether that is flirty or an\nexpression of true love I don't know." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, that's good! Just the track I was onto. I was stuck on plutonium as\nradioactive fuel, so all I could think of by way of analogy was, \"my little chili\npepper\" or something like that. Plutonium as \"my heart\" works quite nicely for\nan atomic powered being." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And it underscores chems as \"people,\" always a concern of Wolfe's." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC17979.6020005@irit.fr>", "from": { "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV", "address": "soloviev at irit.fr" }, "date": "2011-11-14T20:26:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sergei Soloviev:\n\nThe discussion about \"Violet = Plutonium\" went quite far, but I think\nagain this guess (that she is a chem) is hardly supported by the text.\nThe idea that she is an agent of Trivigauntis is not supported either.\n\n\"EftLS\" (\"Lovers\"). Chenille calls Orchid via monitor:\n\"... I need a favor, only there'll be something for you. Maybe a card. \nMaybe more.\"\n\"... you see the mort in doss in the next room? She's the Trivigaunti's \ngeneralissiomo.\nHer name is Siyuf.\"\n\"... I got to bet the hoof. Is Violet riding pretty light?\"\n\"... Siyuf likes tall dells, she would've given me five easy.... Violet \nought to get more\nif she soaps her. Tell her to come uphill and play spoons, tell Siyuf \nshe's my pal ...\"\n\" Only I get half.\"\n\n\"EftLS\" (I'm Auk\")\nChenille calls Silk to the \"Ermine's\".\n(Violet told her where Silk and Hyacinth are.)\n\"... so I talked to Violet some myself (after she was with Siyuf).\"\n\"So it pops out that Trivigauntis caught a flier...\"\n\"Only you didn't know they killed three, did you? Three fliers. That's \nwhat Siyuf\nsaid, Violet says.\"\n\"... Violet figured it might be good to know where this flier was. You know,\nsomething somebody might pay to know.\"\n\"... And Violet spilled something about me and Auk, Patera, just making \nconversation,\nshe says, with Siyuf. She says as soon as she said Auk's name Siyuf \nwanted to know all\nabout him. ... Violet think Auk's mixed with this flier somehow, and now \nthe Trvigauntis\nare looking for him...\"\n\nDoes it look as if she is an agent of Trivigauntis? It is just \"call \ngirl\" who\ndoes her work and wants her piece of cake.\n\nDoes it look as if she is a chem? To deceive Chenille, Orchid, other girls?\nNo chems visiting Orchid!\n\nWe have again a hotly discussed theory based\non scant evidence. : (\n\nIf we look at the Sand's visit to Siyuf:\n\n\"a tall and strikingly handsome brunette in a diaphanous gown peered \nout. (It is Violet.)\n'Hi. You want to see Generalissimo Siyuf?'\"\n\"You got it, Plutonium\"\n...\n\"The handsome young woman nodded. 'Close enough, Soldier. I'm Violet.\"\n\"Sergeant Sand, pleased.\"\n...\n\"Leaning over Violet's shoulder, Hammerstone ponted with a finger thrice \nthe size\nof hers.\n'I don't really read so good', she whispered. 'What's that second word? \nIt can't - Sweetheart,\nthere's a Chenille in here. Is that the Chen we know?\"\n\nI would think the chems are not illiterate. Violet calls Hammerstone \nsweetheart -\nbut it doesn't mean he is a Bio. I think Wolfe merely renders the style of\nchat - both of Violet and soldiers.\n\nLater Sand says (about Bison and Mint) : \"Colonel Bison's General Mint's \nman. If she\nsays spit oil, he says how far?\" Does it mean that Bison is a chem? \nAgain just\nargot (soldiers style).\n\n\"As Abanja face faded to gray, Violet murmured, 'I'd help if I could, \nonly -'\n'Sure, Plutonium.' Slinging his slug gun, Sand stooped, grasped an \nastonished Siyuf about\nthe waist...\"\n\nSand is able to be sarcastic, ne c'est pas?\n\nI really think that many of the theories we discuss here are\nlike skyscrapers built on sand\n\nAll the best\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lee Berman wrote:\nDavid Stockhoff: Lee's comment suggests to me that, since plutonium is \nnever otherwise mentioned but may well be the source of chem energy (i.e., \nthey have nuclear powerplants in the mode of Iron Man's suit), that Sand may be \ncalling Violet something like \"my heart.\" Whether that is flirty or an \nexpression of true love I don't know.\n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, that's good! Just the track I was onto. I was stuck on plutonium as \nradioactive fuel, so all I could think of by way of analogy was, \"my little chili \npepper\" or something like that. Plutonium as \"my heart\" works quite nicely for\nan atomic powered being. \t\t \t \t\t \n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC17F9E.10302@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-11-14T20:52:46+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "<4EC17979.6020005@irit.fr>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/14/2011 3:26 PM, Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\nSergei Soloviev:\n\nThe discussion about \"Violet = Plutonium\" went quite far, but I think\nagain this guess (that she is a chem) is hardly supported by the text.\nThe idea that she is an agent of Trivigauntis is not supported either.\n\n\"EftLS\" (\"Lovers\"). Chenille calls Orchid via monitor:\n\"... I need a favor, only there'll be something for you. Maybe a card. \nMaybe more.\"\n\"... you see the mort in doss in the next room? She's the \nTrivigaunti's generalissiomo.\nHer name is Siyuf.\"\n\"... I got to bet the hoof. Is Violet riding pretty light?\"\n\"... Siyuf likes tall dells, she would've given me five easy.... \nViolet ought to get more\nif she soaps her. Tell her to come uphill and play spoons, tell Siyuf \nshe's my pal ...\"\n\" Only I get half.\"\n\n\"EftLS\" (I'm Auk\")\nChenille calls Silk to the \"Ermine's\".\n(Violet told her where Silk and Hyacinth are.)\n\"... so I talked to Violet some myself (after she was with Siyuf).\"\n\"So it pops out that Trivigauntis caught a flier...\"\n\"Only you didn't know they killed three, did you? Three fliers. That's \nwhat Siyuf\nsaid, Violet says.\"\n\"... Violet figured it might be good to know where this flier was. You \nknow,\nsomething somebody might pay to know.\"\n\"... And Violet spilled something about me and Auk, Patera, just \nmaking conversation,\nshe says, with Siyuf. She says as soon as she said Auk's name Siyuf \nwanted to know all\nabout him. ... Violet think Auk's mixed with this flier somehow, and \nnow the Trvigauntis\nare looking for him...\"\n\nDoes it look as if she is an agent of Trivigauntis? It is just \"call \ngirl\" who\ndoes her work and wants her piece of cake.\n\nDoes it look as if she is a chem? To deceive Chenille, Orchid, other \ngirls?\nNo chems visiting Orchid!\n\nWe have again a hotly discussed theory based\non scant evidence. : (\n\nIf we look at the Sand's visit to Siyuf:\n\n\"a tall and strikingly handsome brunette in a diaphanous gown peered \nout. (It is Violet.)\n'Hi. You want to see Generalissimo Siyuf?'\"\n\"You got it, Plutonium\"\n...\n\"The handsome young woman nodded. 'Close enough, Soldier. I'm Violet.\"\n\"Sergeant Sand, pleased.\"\n...\n\"Leaning over Violet's shoulder, Hammerstone ponted with a finger \nthrice the size\nof hers.\n'I don't really read so good', she whispered. 'What's that second \nword? It can't - Sweetheart,\nthere's a Chenille in here. Is that the Chen we know?\"\n\nI would think the chems are not illiterate. Violet calls Hammerstone \nsweetheart -\nbut it doesn't mean he is a Bio. I think Wolfe merely renders the \nstyle of\nchat - both of Violet and soldiers.\n\nLater Sand says (about Bison and Mint) : \"Colonel Bison's General \nMint's man. If she\nsays spit oil, he says how far?\" Does it mean that Bison is a chem? \nAgain just\nargot (soldiers style).\n\n\"As Abanja face faded to gray, Violet murmured, 'I'd help if I could, \nonly -'\n'Sure, Plutonium.' Slinging his slug gun, Sand stooped, grasped an \nastonished Siyuf about\nthe waist...\"\n\nSand is able to be sarcastic, ne c'est pas?\n\nI really think that many of the theories we discuss here are\nlike skyscrapers built on sand\n\nAll the best\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, not entirely. First, we are not building skyscrapers but rather \nimagining what they might look like and how they might be built. I don't \nthink Violet is a chem either, but if not, why not?\n\nSecond, as an employee of Orchid's---and a big girl to boot, \"second \ntallest\" in fact---Violet is already a spy suspect before she happily \ngets into bed with Siyuf. Having her be a chem too probably complicates \nthe situation too much.\n\nViolet calling Hammerstone \"sweetheart\" means little in a prostitute. \nCalling someone you know by a completely different name---one that \nviolates the known naming conventions, as \"Plutonium\" does---is a little \ndifferent.\n\nGood point about Violet being illiterate though---if she's not faking it." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC18321.3090206@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-14T21:07:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "<4EC17979.6020005@irit.fr>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\n\nSand is able to be sarcastic, ne c'est pas?\nI really think that many of the theories we discuss here are\nlike skyscrapers built on sand" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sand? What the...!!\n\nSeriously, though, this is more like a kwansit hut built on sand. But \nmany assertions that There's Nothing To See Here are also not founded in \ngranite.\n\nThe question of whether Violet is a chem was worth knocking around for \nthese reasons:\nOnly Sand uses this supposed \"term of endearment\". He never employs it \ntoward anyone but Violet; neither bio or chem.\nWe'd be morons not to knock around the idea that she is a chem, just to \ndispense with it. I'm not inclined to believe that she is, but I *do* \nbelieve more is going on. I always have.\n\nI want to distinguish things we definitely know and what is not \nconfirmation of anything (I don't do this to *prove* that Violet is a chem):\n\nViolet works at Orchids. Violet makes extra money as a spy. Hyacinth was \na spy for the Trivigaunte and has also worked at Orchids. If Violet is a \nchem, the people she works for know it, but this is only necessarily \ntrue if she is a chem. Her claim not to be able to read undermines this \nsuspicion, but she could be lying. A desire for money is not evidence \nthat she is a chem. One of the black mechanics has altered his chem so \nthat he works for no money. There is a chem, Sard, who runs a shop. \nChems want things money can buy. Since they want replacement parts, \ntheir desire is possibly greater." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-15T01:39:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "<4EC18321.3090206@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Admittedly I havent closely followed this thread, but it strikes me that a\ntough talking chem like sand would certainly say \"hello, plutonium\" when he\nsaw a beautiful woman instead of \"hello, hot stuff\". Too simple?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Nov 14, 2011 1:40 PM, \"James Wynn\" wrote:\n\nSergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\n\nSand is able to be sarcastic, ne c'est pas?\nI really think that ma..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Sand? What the...!!\n\nSeriously, though, this is more like a kwansit hut built on sand. But many\nassertions that There's Nothing To See Here are also not founded in granite.\n\nThe question of whether Violet is a chem was worth knocking around for\nthese reasons:\nOnly Sand uses this supposed \"term of endearment\". He never employs it\ntoward anyone but Violet; neither bio or chem.\nWe'd be morons not to knock around the idea that she is a chem, just to\ndispense with it. I'm not inclined to believe that she is, but I *do*\nbelieve more is going on. I always have.\n\nI want to distinguish things we definitely know and what is not\nconfirmation of anything (I don't do this to *prove* that Violet is a chem):\n\nViolet works at Orchids. Violet makes extra money as a spy. Hyacinth was a\nspy for the Trivigaunte and has also worked at Orchids. If Violet is a\nchem, the people she works for know it, but this is only necessarily true\nif she is a chem. Her claim not to be able to read undermines this\nsuspicion, but she could be lying. A desire for money is not evidence that\nshe is a chem. One of the black mechanics has altered his chem so that he\nworks for no money. There is a chem, Sard, who runs a shop. Chems want\nthings money can buy. Since they want replacement parts, their desire is\npossibly greater." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Jordon Flato", "address": "jordonflatourth at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-15T01:43:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "By which I'm implying that plutonium is a substitute for hot stuff, not\nsweetheart, since that seems like a more direct bio/chem slang replacement" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Nov 14, 2011 1:40 PM, \"James Wynn\" wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\n\nSand is able to be sarcastic, ne c'est pas?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I really think that ma..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Sand? What the...!!\n\nSeriously, though, this is more like a kwansit hut built on sand. But m..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC1CC00.8090201@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-11-15T02:18:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Possible. But (1) it's capitalized and (2) plutonium fluoride, the form \nit's usually stored in, is violet. So it's specific to Violet." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/14/2011 8:43 PM, Jordon Flato wrote:\n\nBy which I'm implying that plutonium is a substitute for hot stuff, \nnot sweetheart, since that seems like a more direct bio/chem slang \nreplacement" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On Nov 14, 2011 1:40 PM, \"James Wynn\" > wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\n\nSand is able to be sarcastic, ne c'est pas?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "I really think that ma..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Sand? What the...!!\n\nSeriously, though, this is more like a kwansit hut built on sand. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But m..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC1D1E6.1060100@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-15T02:43:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Violet=Plutonium", "in_reply_to": "<4EC1CC00.8090201@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/14/2011 8:18 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nPossible. But (1) it's capitalized and (2) plutonium fluoride, the \nform it's usually stored in, is violet. So it's specific to Violet. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And only Sand says it. And he literally *never* calls Violet by her \nname, or anything else." } ] } ] }