{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6116", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6116, "subject": "The Osiris effect", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2011-11-18T21:01:53+00:00", "last": "2011-11-18T22:25:16+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-18T21:01:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Osiris effect", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l Dannehy-Oakes: Note also that at times Severian uses Terminus Est as a staff. \nI think Wolfe just likes staves." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, I meant to mention that but forgot. I don't think it is so simple though. Who\nis Severian's grandfather? We don't have to consider his connections to Father Inire\nbut we can't ignore that he also carries a staff." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Moreover, the Typhon-Osiris myth was likely imported to Greece, though in that version, \nTyphon defeats Zeus by ripping out his sinews. Hermes manages to get them back and \nrestore Zeus. " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff: Sinews? What? Did you say SINEWS? Which myth is that?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Heh, damn straight! But it isn't some obscure, backwater myth. It is an essential part of\nthe Typhon myth. Any Typhon+Zeus search will bring up multiple sinew-mentioning sites. The\nFather (Inire)-Son-Father theme stretches across the Sun Series in my opinion (and for more\nthan mythological/religious reasons, as noted below)." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Nick Lee: There is an obvious connection here between Wolfe's own life and the\nprotagonists of the Urth cycle. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nI think that continues through the whole Sun Series, but especially in Short Sun. If you are\nlooking, it isn't so hard to spot Gene, his wife, at least some of their children and some of\nthe family problems they have experienced." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Some other connections: Severian's blade contains mercury, named for\nDionysus' foster father; Silk carries an azoth (means \"mercury\"). " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \nArgh! it is the alchemical name! I didn't know that, thanks. And let us not forget that the\nmercury-bearing Terminus Est was created by \"Jovinian\", named for Mercury's father. (Such a \nRoman name implies the sword was fashioned by a non-human like Inire, Cumaean, Barbatus, etc.)\nHow long will Wolfe keep surprising me?\n \nSo, Terminus Est makes an appearance in Long Sun. Cool. I already think a dark version of it\nappears in Short Sun, in the sewer scene. Horn even carries a light along with his sword as \ndoes Severian (and Frodo).\n \n \n \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC6CCB8.1070305@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-11-18T21:23:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Osiris effect", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/18/2011 4:01 PM, Lee Berman wrote:\nArgh! it is the alchemical name! I didn't know that, thanks. And let us not forget that the\nmercury-bearing Terminus Est was created by \"Jovinian\", named for Mercury's father. (Such a\nRoman name implies the sword was fashioned by a non-human like Inire, Cumaean, Barbatus, etc.)\nHow long will Wolfe keep surprising me?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree, although it's also a saint's name so Wolfe is teasing us again." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-18T21:24:00+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Osiris effect", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lee Berman wrote:\nDan'l Dannehy-Oakes: Note also that at times Severian uses Terminus Est as a staff.\nI think Wolfe just likes staves." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, I meant to mention that but forgot. I don't think it is so simple though. Who\nis Severian's grandfather? ?We don't have to consider his connections to Father Inire\nbut we can't ignore that he also carries a staff." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The old boatman carries a staff? I didn't remember that." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC6CD8E.8020506@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-11-18T21:26:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Osiris effect", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/18/2011 4:24 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nLee Berman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Dan'l Dannehy-Oakes: Note also that at times Severian uses Terminus Est as a staff.\nI think Wolfe just likes staves." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Yes, I meant to mention that but forgot. I don't think it is so simple though. Who\nis Severian's grandfather? We don't have to consider his connections to Father Inire\nbut we can't ignore that he also carries a staff." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The old boatman carries a staff? I didn't remember that." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "He pokes the water with it looking for his Cas." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EC6DB4C.3000102@irit.fr>", "from": { "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV", "address": "soloviev at irit.fr" }, "date": "2011-11-18T22:25:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Osiris effect", "in_reply_to": "<4EC6CD8E.8020506@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "It is a pole, not a staff -\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff wrote:\nOn 11/18/2011 4:24 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Lee Berman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Dan'l Dannehy-Oakes: Note also that at times Severian uses Terminus \nEst as a staff.\nI think Wolfe just likes staves." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Yes, I meant to mention that but forgot. I don't think it is so \nsimple though. Who\nis Severian's grandfather? We don't have to consider his \nconnections to Father Inire\nbut we can't ignore that he also carries a staff." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "The old boatman carries a staff? I didn't remember that." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "He pokes the water with it looking for his Cas.\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }