Subject: (urth) The Osiris effect

From: Lee Berman <severiansola at hotmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:01:53 +0000

>Dan'l Dannehy-Oakes: Note also that at times Severian uses Terminus Est as a staff. 
>I think Wolfe just likes staves.

Yes, I meant to mention that but forgot. I don't think it is so simple though. Who
is Severian's grandfather?  We don't have to consider his connections to Father Inire
but we can't ignore that he also carries a staff.

>>Moreover, the Typhon-Osiris myth was likely imported to Greece, though in that version, 
>>Typhon defeats Zeus by ripping out his sinews. Hermes manages to get them back and 
>>restore Zeus.          
 
>David Stockhoff: Sinews? What? Did you say SINEWS? Which myth is that?

Heh, damn straight! But it isn't some obscure, backwater myth. It is an essential part of
the Typhon myth. Any Typhon+Zeus search will bring up multiple sinew-mentioning sites. The
Father (Inire)-Son-Father theme stretches across the Sun Series in my opinion (and for more
than mythological/religious reasons, as noted below).

>Nick Lee: There is an obvious connection here between Wolfe's own life and the
>protagonists of the Urth cycle. 
 
I think that continues through the whole Sun Series, but especially in Short Sun. If you are
looking, it isn't so hard to spot Gene, his wife, at least some of their children and some of
the family problems they have experienced.
 
>Some other connections: Severian's blade contains mercury, named for
>Dionysus' foster father; Silk carries an azoth (means "mercury"). 
 
Argh! it is the alchemical name! I didn't know that, thanks. And let us not forget that the
mercury-bearing Terminus Est was created by "Jovinian", named for Mercury's father. (Such a 
Roman name implies the sword was fashioned by a non-human like Inire, Cumaean, Barbatus, etc.)
How long will Wolfe keep surprising me?
 
So, Terminus Est makes an appearance in Long Sun. Cool. I already think a dark version of it
appears in Short Sun, in the sewer scene. Horn even carries a light along with his sword as 
does Severian (and Frodo).

---

From: David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:23:04 +0000

> How long will Wolfe keep surprising me?

I agree, although it's also a saint's name so Wolfe is teasing us again.

---

From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes <danldo at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:24:00 +0000

Lee Berman wrote:

> is Severian's grandfather? ?We don't have to consider his connections to Father Inire

The old boatman carries a staff? I didn't remember that.

-- 
Dan'l Danehy-Oakes

---

From: David Stockhoff <dstockhoff at verizon.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 21:26:38 +0000

> The old boatman carries a staff? I didn't remember that.

He pokes the water with it looking for his Cas.

---

From: Sergei SOLOVIEV <soloviev at irit.fr>
Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 22:25:16 +0000

It is a pole, not a staff -

Sergei Soloviev

David Stockhoff wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> Urth Mailing List
> To post, write urth at urth.net
> Subscription/information: http://www.urth.net