{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6129", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6129, "subject": "Mandragora", "messages": 7, "voices": 6, "first": "2011-11-30T14:20:55+00:00", "last": "2011-12-01T05:30:33+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<20111130142055.3288.qmail@server281.com>", "from": { "name": "Brian", "address": "brian at studiobl.com" }, "date": "2011-11-30T14:20:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mandragora", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Since we all agree Wikipedia is never wrong ;), I'll just stick with their\ndefinitions. Mandragora is the genus of the plant mandrake, which often\nhas a somewhat man-shaped root. It is also the name of a type of demon.\nThese demons are little dolls given to a sorceror by the Devil for the\npurpose of consulting \"in time of need\". They are thought to be related to\nthe \"[LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetishism] fetish, which is\nnothing else than a dwelling-place made by a [LINK:\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman] shaman or [LINK:\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine-man] medicine-man for the reception\nof any wandering spirit who chooses to take up his abode therein.\"\n\n\nAdmittedly, Wikipedia has this last quote labeled as \"citation needed\", but\nthis does sound remarkably like a spare body." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4ED6485F.2020404@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-11-30T15:14:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mandragora", "in_reply_to": "<20111130142055.3288.qmail@server281.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/30/2011 9:20 AM, Brian wrote:\nSince we all agree Wikipedia is never wrong ;), I'll just stick with \ntheir definitions. Mandragora is the genus of the plant mandrake, \nwhich often has a somewhat man-shaped root. It is also the name of a \ntype of demon. These demons are little dolls given to a sorceror by \nthe Devil for the purpose of consulting \"in time of need\". They are \nthought to be related to the \"/fetish \n/, which is nothing else than \na dwelling-place made by a shaman \n or medicine-man \n for the reception of any \nwandering spirit who chooses to take up his abode therein.\"\n\nAdmittedly, Wikipedia has this last quote labeled as \"citation \nneeded\", but this does sound remarkably like a spare body." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Very nice. And again, this points me to BLS/BSS, and their multitude of \nriders and ridden. Regardless of how much detail Wolfe had worked out by \nthe time he finished BNS, the concept plainly was fully developed even \nthough BNS *seems* to have little possession going on." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4ED64A91.3000003@irit.fr>", "from": { "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV", "address": "soloviev at irit.fr" }, "date": "2011-11-30T15:24:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mandragora", "in_reply_to": "<20111130142055.3288.qmail@server281.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Do you think the dolls that appear often in the dreams described by \nWolfe are\nconnected to mandragora?\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Brian wrote:\nSince we all agree Wikipedia is never wrong ;), I'll just stick with \ntheir definitions. Mandragora is the genus of the plant mandrake, \nwhich often has a somewhat man-shaped root. It is also the name of a \ntype of demon. These demons are little dolls given to a sorceror by \nthe Devil for the purpose of consulting \"in time of need\". They are \nthought to be related to the \"/fetish \n/, which is nothing else than \na dwelling-place made by a shaman \n or medicine-man \n for the reception of any \nwandering spirit who chooses to take up his abode therein.\"\n\nAdmittedly, Wikipedia has this last quote labeled as \"citation \nneeded\", but this does sound remarkably like a spare body.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Larry Miller", "address": "decanus1284 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-11-30T16:17:53+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mandragora", "in_reply_to": "<20111130142055.3288.qmail@server281.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Brian you beat me to it by posting that Wikipedia entry. That does\nsound like a spare body doesnt it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 11/30/11, Brian wrote:\nSince we all agree Wikipedia is never wrong ;), I'll just stick with their\ndefinitions. Mandragora is the genus of the plant mandrake, which often\nhas a somewhat man-shaped root. It is also the name of a type of demon.\nThese demons are little dolls given to a sorceror by the Devil for the\npurpose of consulting \"in time of need\". They are thought to be related to\nthe \"[LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetishism] fetish, which is\nnothing else than a dwelling-place made by a [LINK:\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman] shaman or [LINK:\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine-man] medicine-man for the reception\nof any wandering spirit who chooses to take up his abode therein.\"\n\n\nAdmittedly, Wikipedia has this last quote labeled as \"citation needed\", but\nthis does sound remarkably like a spare body." } ] }, { "message_id": "<22AD5339F77E4448809127268099F843@Rover>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2011-11-30T16:32:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mandragora", "in_reply_to": "<4ED6485F.2020404@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: David Stockhoff \nOn 11/30/2011 9:20 AM, Brian wrote: \n Since we all agree Wikipedia is never wrong ;), I'll just stick with their definitions. Mandragora is the genus of the plant mandrake, which often has a somewhat man-shaped root. It is also the name of a type of demon. These demons are little dolls given to a sorceror by the Devil for the purpose of consulting \"in time of need\". They are thought to be related to the \"fetish, which is nothing else than a dwelling-place made by a shaman or medicine-man for the reception of any wandering spirit who chooses to take up his abode therein.\"\n\n Admittedly, Wikipedia has this last quote labeled as \"citation needed\", but this does sound remarkably like a spare body.\n\n Very nice. And again, this points me to BLS/BSS, and their multitude of riders and ridden. Regardless of how much detail Wolfe had worked out by the time he finished BNS, the concept plainly was fully developed even though BNS *seems* to have little possession going on.\n\nExcept that Severian talked to the mandragora in question, and there was no indication of possession in the sense used elsewhere in the Sun series. One might postulate a hybrid spirit like Mani in Wizard Knight. But the homunculus itself claimed to be a deformed fetus, preserved artificially in a semi-living state.\n\nAs for Typhon, I think he’d find a homunculus in a jar a bit confining. That is, if he weren’t dead a couple of thousand years anyway.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<20111130165738.12365.qmail@server281.com>", "from": { "name": "Brian", "address": "brian at studiobl.com" }, "date": "2011-11-30T16:57:38+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mandragora", "in_reply_to": "<4ED64A91.3000003@irit.fr>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, interesting...those dreams have confused the heck out of me. The whole\nFava thing gets so weird I've never been able to get my head around it. I\ndidn't think the mandragora was possessed, just a forgotten possible host.\nTyphon hedging his bets again.\n\n\n\t-------Original Message-------\n From: Sergei SOLOVIEV\n To: Brian , The Urth Mailing List\n Subject: Re: (urth) Mandragora\n Sent: 30 Nov '11 15:24\n\n Do you think the dolls that appear often in the dreams described by\n Wolfe are\n connected to mandragora?\n\n Sergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Brian wrote:\nSince we all agree Wikipedia is never wrong ;), I'll just stick with\ntheir definitions. Mandragora is the genus of the plant mandrake,\nwhich often has a somewhat man-shaped root. It is also the name of a\ntype of demon. These demons are little dolls given to a sorceror by\nthe Devil for the purpose of consulting \"in time of need\". They are\nthought to be related to the \"/fetish\n<[LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetishism]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetishism>/, which is nothing else than" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "a dwelling-place made by a shaman\n<[LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaman> or medicine-man" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "<[LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine-man]" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicine-man> for the reception of any" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "wandering spirit who chooses to take up his abode therein.\"\n\nAdmittedly, Wikipedia has this last quote labeled as \"citation\nneeded\", but this does sound remarkably like a spare body." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "------------------------------------------------------------------------" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1322717433.34796.YahooMailNeo@web114708.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-12-01T05:30:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Mandragora", "in_reply_to": "<22AD5339F77E4448809127268099F843@Rover>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Gerry Quinn " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But the \nhomunculus itself claimed to be a deformed fetus, preserved artificially in a \nsemi-living state." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Have I said this before? I feel certain that the homunculus is lying (or Severian imagines that it is). It pretends to agree that it's nothing of interest, and dead, as a reason for him to kill it.\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] } ] }