Pig's eye
The Urth list — 6 messages, 4 voices, 30 Nov 2011
https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6130

Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright
in each message remains with the person who wrote it.

Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original
archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than
retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.

==============================================================================

Roy C. Lackey — 30 Nov 2011, 17:35

Marc Aramini write:

> I am almost certain the reason for the conclusion of Short
> Sun being the sacrifice of the eye (in flash back anyway) is
> simply that THAT is the moment when Silk is
> "saved"/rebooted. He pretty much left the
> building/lost his will to live when Hy died, and that reboot
> is an integral way to the manner I read the text: most of
> the Rajan post OBW is, in my opinion, dominated by the
> Silver Silk personality that rode in Pig. I guess I
> could be wrong, but I think that is key to Silk's
> reconstitution, re-enacting the reconstitution of Pas.

Silkhorn didn't need Pig to be able to see in order to "reboot" Silver Silk
into Silkhorn. A glass or Sacred Window was needed to import or export a
god, and Silkhorn had already been exposed to the Sacred Window in the Grand
Manteion before the eye operation. (That is when and how a bit of Scylla got
into Oreb, when Silk assisted with the sacrifices at the Grand Manteion on
the same day that he was found by Hari Mau.)

Rather, Silver Silk in Pig was trapped there by Pig's blindness. Silkhorn
confronted the Silver Silk in Pig in Hy's old room in the ruins of Blood's
villa, saying: "You're not with her now, I realize. As long as Pig is blind,
you can't go back to her." Silver Silk answered, "Correct. Though I would
try to have his sight restored in any case, just as you yourself are making
a praiseworthy effort to restore Maytera's." (RTTW, 174) And there was a
working glass in Pig's recovery room for Silver Silk to use in order to
reintegrate with his greater self in Mainframe.

-Roy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marc Aramini — 30 Nov 2011, 17:38
  in reply to Roy C. Lackey

> --- On Wed, 11/30/11, Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net> wrote:
> From: Roy C. Lackey <rclackey at stic.net>
> Subject: (urth) Pig's eye
> To: "urth" <urth at lists.urth.net>
> Date: Wednesday, November 30, 2011, 9:35 AM
> Marc Aramini write:

> > I am almost certain the reason for the conclusion of
> > Short
> > Sun being the sacrifice of the eye (in flash back
> > anyway) is
> > simply that THAT is the moment when Silk is
> > "saved"/rebooted. He pretty much left the
> > building/lost his will to live when Hy died, and that
> > reboot
> > is an integral way to the manner I read the text: most
> > of
> > the Rajan post OBW is, in my opinion, dominated by
> > the
> > Silver Silk personality that rode in Pig. I guess I
> > could be wrong, but I think that is key to Silk's
> > reconstitution, re-enacting the reconstitution of
> > Pas.

> Silkhorn didn't need Pig to be able to see in order to
> "reboot" Silver Silk
> into Silkhorn. A glass or Sacred Window was needed to
> import or export a
> god, and Silkhorn had already been exposed to the Sacred
> Window in the Grand
> Manteion before the eye operation. (That is when and how a
> bit of Scylla got
> into Oreb, when Silk assisted with the sacrifices at the
> Grand Manteion on
> the same day that he was found by Hari Mau.)
> 
> Rather, Silver Silk in Pig was trapped there by Pig's
> blindness. Silkhorn
> confronted the Silver Silk in Pig in Hy's old room in the
> ruins of Blood's
> villa, saying: "You're not with her now, I realize. As long
> as Pig is blind,
> you can't go back to her." Silver Silk answered, "Correct.
> Though I would
> try to have his sight restored in any case, just as you
> yourself are making
> a praiseworthy effort to restore Maytera's." (RTTW, 174)
> And there was a
> working glass in Pig's recovery room for Silver Silk to use
> in order to
> reintegrate with his greater self in Mainframe.
> 
> -Roy

So was Silver Silk still in mainframe while he was trapped in Pig?  I need to look it over again.  I know he was trapped in Pig ... but is that a fragment or "all" of him?  The copying/deletion gets a bit onerous.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marc Aramini — 30 Nov 2011, 17:41
  in reply to Marc Aramini

> > from roy: And there was a
> > working glass in Pig's recovery room for Silver Silk
> > to use
> > in order to
> > reintegrate with his greater self in Mainframe.
> > 
> > -Roy

> marc: So was Silver Silk still in mainframe while he was trapped
> in Pig? I need to look it over again. I know he
> was trapped in Pig ... but is that a fragment or "all" of
> him? The copying/deletion gets a bit onerous.

So I guess I'm asking if SilverSilk was only reuniting with his greater part or "returning" wholesale to mainframe, where he could then flash a part of himself back to the body of Silk (if he was deleted or not present previously, perhaps this would not be possible)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

James Wynn — 30 Nov 2011, 17:51
  in reply to Marc Aramini

> > > working glass in Pig's recovery room for Silver Silk
> > > to use
> > > in order to
> > > reintegrate with his greater self in Mainframe.
> > > 
> > > -Roy
> > > marc: So was Silver Silk still in mainframe while he was trapped
> > > in Pig?  I need to look it over again.  I know he
> > > was trapped in Pig ... but is that a fragment or "all" of
> > > him?  The copying/deletion gets a bit onerous.

> So I guess I'm asking if SilverSilk was only reuniting with his greater part or "returning" wholesale to mainframe, where he could then flash a part of himself back to the body of Silk (if he was deleted or not present previously, perhaps this would not be possible)

I presume Silver Silk is like any other Mainframe entity. A part --and 
aspect-- of him can possess humans, chems, and animals. When the part 
returns to Mainframe, it's memories and identity are reintegrated into 
the whole.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

António Pedro Marques — 30 Nov 2011, 18:03
  in reply to Marc Aramini

Marc Aramini wrote (30-11-2011 17:41):

> Marc:

> > Roy:

> > > And there was a working glass in Pig's recovery room for Silver Silk
> > > to use in order to reintegrate with his greater self in Mainframe.

> > marc: So was Silver Silk still in mainframe while he was trapped in
> > Pig?  I need to look it over again.  I know he was trapped in Pig ...
> > but is that a fragment or "all" of him?  The copying/deletion gets a
> > bit onerous.

> So I guess I'm asking if SilverSilk was only reuniting with his greater
> part or "returning" wholesale to mainframe, where he could then flash a
> part of himself back to the body of Silk (if he was deleted or not
> present previously, perhaps this would not be possible)

The narrator acts Silky enough from the first moment, which suggests there 
is Silk in him, but showing no memory of the 20 years between LS and the 
sending of Horn into Silk's body. So where did that Silk come from? Horn's 
memories becoming personality once in Silk's body?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Roy C. Lackey — 30 Nov 2011, 19:37
  in reply to Marc Aramini

> > Marc Aramini quoted and wrote:
> > from roy: And there was a
> > working glass in Pig's recovery room for Silver Silk
> > to use
> > in order to
> > reintegrate with his greater self in Mainframe.
> > 
> > -Roy

> marc: So was Silver Silk still in mainframe while he was trapped
> in Pig? I need to look it over again. I know he
> was trapped in Pig ... but is that a fragment or "all" of
> him? The copying/deletion gets a bit onerous.

> So I guess I'm asking if SilverSilk was only reuniting with his greater
> part or "returning" wholesale to mainframe, where he could then flash a part
> of himself back to the body of Silk (if he was deleted or not present
> previously, perhaps this would not be possible)<

_______________________________________________

Yes, Silver Silk in Pig could only reunite with his greater self in
Mainframe. That is the only way he could reunite with the "her" of the quote
I gave. Not even a human can come close to harboring all that constitutes a
god in the giant computer that is Mainframe. Scylla in Chenille at the lake
also said she must reintegrate with her greater self in Mainframe, when she
left Chenille. There is no reason to suppose that Silver Silk had been wiped
out of Mainframe.

And yes, it would have been possible for the greater Silver Silk in
Mainframe to flash part of himself into Silk's body, whether by way of the
Grand Manteion's Sacred Window or the working glass in Pig's recovery room.

Of course the "her" of the quote most properly refers to Kypris, because Hy
wasn't dead at the time Silver Silk became trapped in Pig. Hy may have "gone
to Mainframe", so to speak, when she died, but it wasn't Hy that Silver Silk
was longing for.

-Roy

------------------------------------------------------------------------------