{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6131", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6131, "subject": "Witche", "messages": 3, "voices": 3, "first": "2011-12-03T13:11:20+00:00", "last": "2011-12-03T19:17:05+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-03T13:11:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Witche", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff: It occurred to me that the Witches' patron saint might " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "shed light on them....(1) Mag/Maggie/Margaret is one of the Three Holy Maids" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nGreat research and insight David! The \"Three Maids\" remind me of the three maids\n\nin Dr. Talos' play. Aside from beheading, I wonder if there is further connection\n\nto Lybe, Solange and Kyneburga." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(2) Saint Margaret is the patron of women in childbirth because she \nprayed at her death that women in childbirth would, upon calling on her, \nbe safely delivered of the child as she had been delivered from the \nbelly of the dragon." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nMy ears are going to perk up to dragon references- Typhon, mandragora, etc.\n\nMoreover, connecting saints and witches somehow brings the Pelerines to mind.\n\nThere are some textual clues suggesting these two women's groups are associated." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Has anyone considered Valeria as a candidate to be the beautiful maid \nwho is beheaded annually at the Feast of St Katherine? This would \nrequire that Severian suppress any recognition of her" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": " \n\nValeria is Severian's age while the Holy Katharine maid is older. Also the maid\n\nhas an olive or darker complection while Valeria's is \"strawberries and cream\" iirc.\n\nStill, Valeria's face and the maid's (and her possible clones) face are alike in\n\nthat Severian repeatedly reports that they \"tear at my heart\". I've heard theories\n\nof Valeria being Catherine's daughter and others suggesting she is Catherine's mother\n\nwith time travel stuff going on. I'm not sure. But I think there is a connection. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EDA30DB.9000100@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-12-03T14:23:23+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Witche", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/3/2011 8:11 AM, Lee Berman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "David Stockhoff: It occurred to me that the Witches' patron saint might\nshed light on them....(1) Mag/Maggie/Margaret is one of the Three Holy Maids" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Great research and insight David!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Hardly! We should all have the Saints website bookmarked by now...." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The \"Three Maids\" remind me of the three maids\n\nin Dr. Talos' play. Aside from beheading, I wonder if there is further connection\n\nto Lybe, Solange and Kyneburga." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "The number 3 is symmetrical, echoing the Three Maids, but otherwise, to \nme, they mostly seem to reinforce the \"beheaded virgin martyrs\" motif. \nKatherines is at the center of this but I wonder if there is some \nadditional symbolic significance to beheading." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "(2) Saint Margaret is the patron of women in childbirth because she\nprayed at her death that women in childbirth would, upon calling on her,\nbe safely delivered of the child as she had been delivered from the\nbelly of the dragon." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "My ears are going to perk up to dragon references- Typhon, mandragora, etc.\n\nMoreover, connecting saints and witches somehow brings the Pelerines to mind.\n\nThere are some textual clues suggesting these two women's groups are associated." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Has anyone considered Valeria as a candidate to be the beautiful maid\nwho is beheaded annually at the Feast of St Katherine? This would\nrequire that Severian suppress any recognition of her" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Valeria is Severian's age while the Holy Katharine maid is older. Also the maid\n\nhas an olive or darker complection while Valeria's is \"strawberries and cream\" iirc.\n\nStill, Valeria's face and the maid's (and her possible clones) face are alike in\n\nthat Severian repeatedly reports that they \"tear at my heart\". I've heard theories\n\nof Valeria being Catherine's daughter and others suggesting she is Catherine's mother\n\nwith time travel stuff going on. I'm not sure. But I think there is a connection. \t\t \t \t\t" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right, they are different \"colors.\"\n\nValeria bothers me. She plays almost zero role in the story and then he \nmarries her. There's a fairy-tale symmetry there, but she's another \nabsence, like Inire." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "entonio at gmail.com", "address": "entonio at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-03T19:17:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Witche", "in_reply_to": "<4EDA30DB.9000100@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No dia 2011/12/03, ?s 14:23, David Stockhoff \nescreveu:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Valeria bothers me. She plays almost zero role in the story and then \nhe marries her. There's a fairy-tale symmetry there, but she's \nanother absence, like Inire." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "All hell broke loose last time I inquired on this. " } ] } ] }