# Witche *The Urth list — 3 messages, 3 voices, 03 Dec 2011* > Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright > in each message remains with the person who wrote it. > Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original > archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than > retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact. --- ### Lee Berman *03 Dec 2011, 13:11* > David Stockhoff: It occurred to me that the Witches' patron saint might > shed light on them....(1) Mag/Maggie/Margaret is one of the Three Holy Maids Great research and insight David! The "Three Maids" remind me of the three maids in Dr. Talos' play. Aside from beheading, I wonder if there is further connection to Lybe, Solange and Kyneburga. > (2) Saint Margaret is the patron of women in childbirth because she > prayed at her death that women in childbirth would, upon calling on her, > be safely delivered of the child as she had been delivered from the > belly of the dragon. My ears are going to perk up to dragon references- Typhon, mandragora, etc. Moreover, connecting saints and witches somehow brings the Pelerines to mind. There are some textual clues suggesting these two women's groups are associated. > Has anyone considered Valeria as a candidate to be the beautiful maid > who is beheaded annually at the Feast of St Katherine? This would > require that Severian suppress any recognition of her Valeria is Severian's age while the Holy Katharine maid is older. Also the maid has an olive or darker complection while Valeria's is "strawberries and cream" iirc. Still, Valeria's face and the maid's (and her possible clones) face are alike in that Severian repeatedly reports that they "tear at my heart". I've heard theories of Valeria being Catherine's daughter and others suggesting she is Catherine's mother with time travel stuff going on. I'm not sure. But I think there is a connection. --- ### David Stockhoff *03 Dec 2011, 14:23 · in reply to Lee Berman* > On 12/3/2011 8:11 AM, Lee Berman wrote: >> David Stockhoff: It occurred to me that the Witches' patron saint might >> shed light on them....(1) Mag/Maggie/Margaret is one of the Three Holy Maids > Great research and insight David! Hardly! We should all have the Saints website bookmarked by now.... > The "Three Maids" remind me of the three maids > > in Dr. Talos' play. Aside from beheading, I wonder if there is further connection > > to Lybe, Solange and Kyneburga. The number 3 is symmetrical, echoing the Three Maids, but otherwise, to me, they mostly seem to reinforce the "beheaded virgin martyrs" motif. Katherines is at the center of this but I wonder if there is some additional symbolic significance to beheading. >> (2) Saint Margaret is the patron of women in childbirth because she >> prayed at her death that women in childbirth would, upon calling on her, >> be safely delivered of the child as she had been delivered from the >> belly of the dragon. > My ears are going to perk up to dragon references- Typhon, mandragora, etc. > > Moreover, connecting saints and witches somehow brings the Pelerines to mind. > > There are some textual clues suggesting these two women's groups are associated. >> Has anyone considered Valeria as a candidate to be the beautiful maid >> who is beheaded annually at the Feast of St Katherine? This would >> require that Severian suppress any recognition of her > Valeria is Severian's age while the Holy Katharine maid is older. Also the maid > > has an olive or darker complection while Valeria's is "strawberries and cream" iirc. > > Still, Valeria's face and the maid's (and her possible clones) face are alike in > > that Severian repeatedly reports that they "tear at my heart". I've heard theories > > of Valeria being Catherine's daughter and others suggesting she is Catherine's mother > > with time travel stuff going on. I'm not sure. But I think there is a connection. Right, they are different "colors." Valeria bothers me. She plays almost zero role in the story and then he marries her. There's a fairy-tale symmetry there, but she's another absence, like Inire. --- ### entonio at gmail.com *03 Dec 2011, 19:17 · in reply to David Stockhoff* No dia 2011/12/03, ?s 14:23, David Stockhoff escreveu: > Valeria bothers me. She plays almost zero role in the story and then > he marries her. There's a fairy-tale symmetry there, but she's > another absence, like Inire. All hell broke loose last time I inquired on this. ---