{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6148", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6148, "subject": "instant new fan", "messages": 29, "voices": 7, "first": "2011-12-19T00:59:03+00:00", "last": "2011-12-21T14:07:39+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T00:59:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly enchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China Mieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've been\ndiscovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I read it.\nI was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself ensconced\nby many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing. Mr. Wolfe\nseems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake, however.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like the\nkind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EEEB67B.8060306@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-12-19T03:58:51+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nThought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still \ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly \nenchanted. A friend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien \nand China Mieville finally, at my persistent insistence, obtained \nBotNS and posted this to me on Facebook just now about what he's read \nso far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've been \ndiscovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I \nread it. I was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found \nmyself ensconced by many of the same elements that I'm loving in \nWolfe's writing. Mr. Wolfe seems much better at marrying plot and \npoesy than Mr. Peake, however.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like \nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are many \nothers, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll in \nCotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be \nthe legions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well \nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely than \nwildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:08:36+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "<4EEEB67B.8060306@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or tone\nor texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nOn 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly enchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China Mieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've been\ndiscovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I read it.\nI was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself ensconced\nby many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing. Mr. Wolfe\nseems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake, however.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like the\nkind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are many\nothers, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll in\nCotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be the\nlegions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely than\nwildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:14:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in *The Shadow of\nthe Torturer *where Ultan is describing the different books in the library;\nwonderful! That together with the nearby *Book of Gold* passage really\nmade me fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe in general." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:\nYes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly enchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China Mieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've been\ndiscovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I read it.\nI was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself ensconced\nby many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing. Mr. Wolfe\nseems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake, however.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are many\nothers, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll in\nCotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be the\nlegions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely than\nwildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:17:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of which totally blow me\naway with the beauty of the language.\n\nMy favorite, however, must be the passage in _Citadel_ where he\nrealizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a rosebush, ending with\nthe line about throwing his boots into the sea so that he might not\nwalk shod on holy land." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:\nWolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique language.\nI haven't memorized the passage, but the part in The Shadow of the Torturer\nwhere Ultan is describing the different books in the library; wonderful!\nThat together with the nearby Book of Gold passage really made me fall in\nlove with that book in particular and Wolfe in general.\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. ?I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting with\nthe sentence: ?'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly enchanted. ?A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China Mieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've been\ndiscovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I read it.\nI was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself ensconced by\nmany of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing. Mr. Wolfe\nseems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake, however.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are many\nothers, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll in\nCotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be the\nlegions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely than\nwildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:25:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You know, it's funny. The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a decade\nago. There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and\nsyntax and what have you. The story itself and its themes began to sweep\nme up as the book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book\nor series that the writing itself began to leap out at me as really\nexquisite prose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden in\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. The writing is *so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring writers)\nthat it just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always\nnotice it until you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and Short\nSuns just as much as New Sun. It's just doing something totally different\nthan Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin\nwrote:\nWolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in *The Shadow\nof the Torturer *where Ultan is describing the different books in the\nlibrary; wonderful! That together with the nearby *Book of Gold* passage\nreally made me fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe in\ngeneral.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly enchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China Mieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've been\ndiscovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I read it.\nI was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself ensconced\nby many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing. Mr. Wolfe\nseems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake, however.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are many\nothers, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll in\nCotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be the\nlegions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely than\nwildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:36:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, that part's brilliant, Dan'l.\n\nOh and now I remember the line well into SotT (Chapter XVI 'The Rag Shop')\nthat really awoke me to the fact I was reading a great writer:\n\n'If there are layers of reality beneath the reality we see, even as there\nare layers of history beneath the ground we walk upon, then in one of those\nmore profound realities, Dr. Talos's face was a fox's mask on a wall, and I\nmarveled to see it turn and bend now toward the woman, achieving by those\nmotions, which made expression and thought appear to lay across it with the\nshadows of the nose and brows, an amazing and realistic appearance of\nvivacity. \"Would you refuse it?\" he asked again, and I shook myself as\nthough waking.'\n\nI remember physically shuddering at the moment of the fox mask bending\ntoward the woman. I immediately had my wife, who happened to be sitting\nnext to me, read the paragraph and she felt the same.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nI have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of which totally blow me\naway with the beauty of the language.\n\nMy favorite, however, must be the passage in _Citadel_ where he\nrealizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a rosebush, ending with\nthe line about throwing his boots into the sea so that he might not\nwalk shod on holy land.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage.\nI haven't memorized the passage, but the part in The Shadow of the\nTorturer\nwhere Ultan is describing the different books in the library; wonderful!\nThat together with the nearby Book of Gold passage really made me fall in\nlove with that book in particular and Wolfe in general.\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting\nwith\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff <\ndstockhoff at verizon.net>\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly\nenchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China\nMieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this\nto me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've been\ndiscovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I\nread it.\nI was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself\nensconced by\nmany of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing. Mr." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Wolfe\nseems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake, however." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "I'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are\nmany\nothers, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll\nin\nCotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be\nthe\nlegions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely\nthan\nwildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:36:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Daniel, I understand what you mean about the prose being so good it kind of\nslips under the radar, and \"does its job\". I read Neal Stephenson's *\nQuicksilver* and absolutely loved it, then read *Shadow and Claw*, which I\nloved even more. Then I went back to read Stephenson's *The Confusion*,\nand it felt like I had really, really stepped down a notch. I didn't\nrealize how good the prose in *New Sun* was until I read something else;\nthen it hit me how incredibly well Wolfe can write.\n\nP.S. I feel like I should mention that *The Confusion*, once I got back\ninto the swing of that story, ended up being one of my favorite \"adventure\"\nnovels. I highly recommend it!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:\nYou know, it's funny. The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a decade\nago. There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and\nsyntax and what have you. The story itself and its themes began to sweep\nme up as the book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book\nor series that the writing itself began to leap out at me as really\nexquisite prose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden in\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. The writing is *so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring writers)\nthat it just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always\nnotice it until you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and Short\nSuns just as much as New Sun. It's just doing something totally different\nthan Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin <\nkierkegaurdian at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in *The Shadow\nof the Torturer *where Ultan is describing the different books in the\nlibrary; wonderful! That together with the nearby *Book of Gold*passage really made me fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe\nin general.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff ", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:40:32+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh yes, Antonin: happens to me all the time. Dan Simmons, for example,\nwrites a very compelling yard in perfectly capable prose. But if I read\nhim too close to an immersive reading of Wolfe, I'll find myself\ndistactedly pining for Wolfean prose. And, as you say, once I'm into the\nswing of any good writer's less-than-the-Wolfean-ideal prose, I thoroughly\nenjoy myself. (I've been planning to check out Stephenson for some time.)\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Antonin Scriabin\nwrote:\nDaniel, I understand what you mean about the prose being so good it kind\nof slips under the radar, and \"does its job\". I read Neal Stephenson's *\nQuicksilver* and absolutely loved it, then read *Shadow and Claw*, which\nI loved even more. Then I went back to read Stephenson's *The Confusion*,\nand it felt like I had really, really stepped down a notch. I didn't\nrealize how good the prose in *New Sun* was until I read something else;\nthen it hit me how incredibly well Wolfe can write.\n\nP.S. I feel like I should mention that *The Confusion*, once I got back\ninto the swing of that story, ended up being one of my favorite \"adventure\"\nnovels. I highly recommend it!\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You know, it's funny. The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a decade\nago. There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and\nsyntax and what have you. The story itself and its themes began to sweep\nme up as the book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book\nor series that the writing itself began to leap out at me as really\nexquisite prose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden in\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. The writing is *so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring writers)\nthat it just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always\nnotice it until you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and\nShort Suns just as much as New Sun. It's just doing something totally\ndifferent than Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin <\nkierkegaurdian at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in *The Shadow\nof the Torturer *where Ultan is describing the different books in the\nlibrary; wonderful! That together with the nearby *Book of Gold*passage really made me fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe\nin general.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff <\ndstockhoff at verizon.net> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly enchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China Mieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've\nbeen discovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I\nread it. I was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself\nensconced by many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing.\nMr. Wolfe seems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake,\nhowever.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are\nmany others, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll\nin CotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be\nthe legions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely\nthan wildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:41:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Daniel, if you want to check out Stephenson, I would recommend\nstarting with \"Anathem,\" a book of deep secrets." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:\nOh yes, Antonin: happens to me all the time. ?Dan Simmons, for example,\nwrites a very compelling yard in perfectly capable prose. ?But if I read him\ntoo close to an immersive reading of Wolfe, I'll find myself distactedly\npining for Wolfean prose. ?And, as you say, once I'm into the swing of any\ngood writer's less-than-the-Wolfean-ideal prose, I thoroughly enjoy myself.\n?(I've been planning to check out Stephenson for some time.)\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Antonin Scriabin \nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Daniel, I understand what you mean about the prose being so good it kind\nof slips under the radar, and \"does its job\". I read Neal Stephenson's\nQuicksilver and absolutely loved it, then read Shadow and Claw, which I\nloved even more. Then I went back to read Stephenson's The Confusion, and\nit felt like I had really, really stepped down a notch. I didn't realize\nhow good the prose in New Sun was until I read something else; then it hit\nme how incredibly well Wolfe can write.\n\nP.S. I feel like I should mention that The Confusion, once I got back into\nthe swing of that story, ended up being one of my favorite \"adventure\"\nnovels. I highly recommend it!\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "You know, it's funny. ?The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a decade ago.\n?There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and syntax\nand what have you. ?The story itself and its themes began to sweep me up as\nthe book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book or series\nthat the writing itself began to leap out at me as really exquisite prose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden in\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. ?The writing is *so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring writers) that\nit just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always notice it\nuntil you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and\nShort Suns just as much as New Sun. “It's just doing something totally\ndifferent than Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage.” I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in The Shadow of\nthe Torturer where Ultan is describing the different books in the library;\nwonderful!? That together with the nearby Book of Gold passage really made\nme fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe in general.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. ?I remember loving the\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL, starting with\nthe sentence: ?'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style or\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly enchanted. ?A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China Mieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted this to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've\nbeen discovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by when I read\nit. I was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself\nensconced by many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's writing.\nMr. Wolfe seems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr. Peake,\nhowever.\n\nI'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems like\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are\nmany others, but I think most often of the description of lotuses on Gyoll\nin CotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear to be\nthe legions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were well\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely\nthan wildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T18:44:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have yet to read *Anathem *(sitting on my shelf as we speak), but I would\nhighly recommend his *Baroque Cycle* and the related book, *Cryptonomicon*.\nHe is a very snappy writer, and is one of the few I have come across who\ncan make a 1,000 page novel just whiz by. Lots of fireworks and\nexcitement; he said in an interview not too long ago that he is first and\nforemost concerned with writing \"a good yarn\"." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nDaniel, if you want to check out Stephenson, I would recommend\nstarting with \"Anathem,\" a book of deep secrets.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Oh yes, Antonin: happens to me all the time. Dan Simmons, for example,\nwrites a very compelling yard in perfectly capable prose. But if I read\nhim\ntoo close to an immersive reading of Wolfe, I'll find myself distactedly\npining for Wolfean prose. And, as you say, once I'm into the swing of\nany\ngood writer's less-than-the-Wolfean-ideal prose, I thoroughly enjoy\nmyself.\n (I've been planning to check out Stephenson for some time.)\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Antonin Scriabin <\nkierkegaurdian at gmail.com>\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Daniel, I understand what you mean about the prose being so good it kind\nof slips under the radar, and \"does its job\". I read Neal Stephenson's\nQuicksilver and absolutely loved it, then read Shadow and Claw, which I\nloved even more. Then I went back to read Stephenson's The Confusion,\nand\nit felt like I had really, really stepped down a notch. I didn't\nrealize\nhow good the prose in New Sun was until I read something else; then it\nhit\nme how incredibly well Wolfe can write.\n\nP.S. I feel like I should mention that The Confusion, once I got back\ninto\nthe swing of that story, ended up being one of my favorite \"adventure\"\nnovels. I highly recommend it!\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "You know, it's funny. The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a\ndecade ago.\n There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and\nsyntax\nand what have you. The story itself and its themes began to sweep me\nup as\nthe book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book or\nseries\nthat the writing itself began to leap out at me as really exquisite\nprose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden in\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. The writing is\n*so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring\nwriters) that\nit just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always\nnotice it\nuntil you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and\nShort Suns just as much as New Sun. It's just doing something totally\ndifferent than Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in The\nShadow of\nthe Torturer where Ultan is describing the different books in the\nlibrary;\nwonderful! That together with the nearby Book of Gold passage really\nmade\nme fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe in general.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving\nthe\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL,\nstarting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style\nor\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly\nenchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China\nMieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted\nthis to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've\nbeen discovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by\nwhen I read\nit. I was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found myself\nensconced by many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's\nwriting.\nMr. Wolfe seems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Peake,\nhowever." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "I'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems\nlike\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are\nmany others, but I think most often of the description of lotuses\non Gyoll\nin CotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear\nto be\nthe legions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were\nwell\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely\nthan wildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Larry Miller", "address": "decanus1284 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T19:02:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Snow Crash is also good IMHO a better cyberpunk novel than any of\nGibsons recent works. The Diamond Age is also a great book, probably\nmy favorite book of his so far." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/19/11, Antonin Scriabin wrote:\nI have yet to read *Anathem *(sitting on my shelf as we speak), but I would\nhighly recommend his *Baroque Cycle* and the related book, *Cryptonomicon*.\nHe is a very snappy writer, and is one of the few I have come across who\ncan make a 1,000 page novel just whiz by. Lots of fireworks and\nexcitement; he said in an interview not too long ago that he is first and\nforemost concerned with writing \"a good yarn\".\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Daniel, if you want to check out Stephenson, I would recommend\nstarting with \"Anathem,\" a book of deep secrets.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Oh yes, Antonin: happens to me all the time. Dan Simmons, for example,\nwrites a very compelling yard in perfectly capable prose. But if I read\nhim\ntoo close to an immersive reading of Wolfe, I'll find myself distactedly\npining for Wolfean prose. And, as you say, once I'm into the swing of\nany\ngood writer's less-than-the-Wolfean-ideal prose, I thoroughly enjoy\nmyself.\n (I've been planning to check out Stephenson for some time.)\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Antonin Scriabin <\nkierkegaurdian at gmail.com>\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Daniel, I understand what you mean about the prose being so good it\nkind\nof slips under the radar, and \"does its job\". I read Neal Stephenson's\nQuicksilver and absolutely loved it, then read Shadow and Claw, which I\nloved even more. Then I went back to read Stephenson's The Confusion,\nand\nit felt like I had really, really stepped down a notch. I didn't\nrealize\nhow good the prose in New Sun was until I read something else; then it\nhit\nme how incredibly well Wolfe can write.\n\nP.S. I feel like I should mention that The Confusion, once I got back\ninto\nthe swing of that story, ended up being one of my favorite \"adventure\"\nnovels. I highly recommend it!\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "You know, it's funny. The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a\ndecade ago.\n There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and\nsyntax\nand what have you. The story itself and its themes began to sweep me\nup as\nthe book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book or\nseries\nthat the writing itself began to leap out at me as really exquisite\nprose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden\nin\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. The writing is\n*so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring\nwriters) that\nit just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always\nnotice it\nuntil you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and\nShort Suns just as much as New Sun. It's just doing something totally\ndifferent than Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in The\nShadow of\nthe Torturer where Ultan is describing the different books in the\nlibrary;\nwonderful! That together with the nearby Book of Gold passage really\nmade\nme fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe in general.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving\nthe\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL,\nstarting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style\nor\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 9, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly\nenchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China\nMieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted\nthis to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've\nbeen discovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by\nwhen I read\nit. I was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found\nmyself\nensconced by many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's\nwriting.\nMr. Wolfe seems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Peake,\nhowever." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 9, "text": "I'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems\nlike\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are\nmany others, but I think most often of the description of lotuses\non Gyoll\nin CotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what appear\nto be\nthe legions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were\nwell\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely\nthan wildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T19:04:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I always kind of thought you could be either a \"Stephenson\" or \"Gibson\"\nperson, but not both. [?]\n\nI" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Larry Miller wrote:\nSnow Crash is also good IMHO a better cyberpunk novel than any of\nGibsons recent works. The Diamond Age is also a great book, probably\nmy favorite book of his so far.\n\nOn 12/19/11, Antonin Scriabin wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I have yet to read *Anathem *(sitting on my shelf as we speak), but I\nwould\nhighly recommend his *Baroque Cycle* and the related book,\n*Cryptonomicon*.\nHe is a very snappy writer, and is one of the few I have come across who\ncan make a 1,000 page novel just whiz by. Lots of fireworks and\nexcitement; he said in an interview not too long ago that he is first and\nforemost concerned with writing \"a good yarn\".\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Oh yes, Antonin: happens to me all the time. Dan Simmons, for\nexample,\nwrites a very compelling yard in perfectly capable prose. But if I\nread\nhim\ntoo close to an immersive reading of Wolfe, I'll find myself\ndistactedly\npining for Wolfean prose. And, as you say, once I'm into the swing of\nany\ngood writer's less-than-the-Wolfean-ideal prose, I thoroughly enjoy\nmyself.\n (I've been planning to check out Stephenson for some time.)\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Antonin Scriabin <\nkierkegaurdian at gmail.com>\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "Daniel, I understand what you mean about the prose being so good it\nkind\nof slips under the radar, and \"does its job\". I read Neal\nStephenson's\nQuicksilver and absolutely loved it, then read Shadow and Claw,\nwhich I\nloved even more. Then I went back to read Stephenson's The\nConfusion,\nand\nit felt like I had really, really stepped down a notch. I didn't\nrealize\nhow good the prose in New Sun was until I read something else; then\nit\nhit\nme how incredibly well Wolfe can write.\n\nP.S. I feel like I should mention that The Confusion, once I got back\ninto\nthe swing of that story, ended up being one of my favorite\n\"adventure\"\nnovels. I highly recommend it!\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "You know, it's funny. The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a\ndecade ago.\n There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and\nsyntax\nand what have you. The story itself and its themes began to sweep\nme\nup as\nthe book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book or\nseries\nthat the writing itself began to leap out at me as really exquisite\nprose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden\nin\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. The writing\nis\n*so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring\nwriters) that\nit just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always\nnotice it\nuntil you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and\nShort Suns just as much as New Sun. It's just doing something\ntotally\ndifferent than Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in The\nShadow of\nthe Torturer where Ultan is describing the different books in the\nlibrary;\nwonderful! That together with the nearby Book of Gold passage\nreally\nmade\nme fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe in general.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember\nloving\nthe\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL,\nstarting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of\nthe\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in\nstyle\nor\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 9, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 10, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are\nstill\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly\nenchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China\nMieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted\nthis to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I've\nbeen discovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by\nwhen I read\nit. I was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found\nmyself\nensconced by many of the same elements that I'm loving in\nWolfe's\nwriting." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 10, "text": "Mr. Wolfe seems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Peake,\nhowever." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 10, "text": "I'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems\nlike\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 9, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There\nare\nmany others, but I think most often of the description of lotuses\non Gyoll\nin CotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what\nappear\nto be\nthe legions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were\nwell\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more\ndensely\nthan wildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T19:08:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yeah, I've been hearing about all these books and Stephenson's skills for a\nwhile and am totally hooked in already. I also saw him do a brilliant\nGoogle video talk and heard a recording of him speaking at an academic SF\ngathering - and he said some of the most memorable things I've heard from\nwriters and SF industry folks. One of the most captivating speakers I've\nwitnessed. Not all writers have this gift. Looking forward to taking a\nbig bite out of his oeuvre, but, recommendations notwithstanding, I'm still\ntotally puzzled about how best to begin to tackle its voluminous bulk!\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:44 PM, Antonin Scriabin\nwrote:\nI have yet to read *Anathem *(sitting on my shelf as we speak), but I\nwould highly recommend his *Baroque Cycle* and the related book, *\nCryptonomicon*. He is a very snappy writer, and is one of the few I have\ncome across who can make a 1,000 page novel just whiz by. Lots of\nfireworks and excitement; he said in an interview not too long ago that he\nis first and foremost concerned with writing \"a good yarn\".\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:41 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Daniel, if you want to check out Stephenson, I would recommend\nstarting with \"Anathem,\" a book of deep secrets.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Oh yes, Antonin: happens to me all the time. Dan Simmons, for example,\nwrites a very compelling yard in perfectly capable prose. But if I\nread him\ntoo close to an immersive reading of Wolfe, I'll find myself distactedly\npining for Wolfean prose. And, as you say, once I'm into the swing of\nany\ngood writer's less-than-the-Wolfean-ideal prose, I thoroughly enjoy\nmyself.\n (I've been planning to check out Stephenson for some time.)\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:36 PM, Antonin Scriabin <\nkierkegaurdian at gmail.com>\nwrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Daniel, I understand what you mean about the prose being so good it\nkind\nof slips under the radar, and \"does its job\". I read Neal Stephenson's\nQuicksilver and absolutely loved it, then read Shadow and Claw, which I\nloved even more. Then I went back to read Stephenson's The Confusion,\nand\nit felt like I had really, really stepped down a notch. I didn't\nrealize\nhow good the prose in New Sun was until I read something else; then it\nhit\nme how incredibly well Wolfe can write.\n\nP.S. I feel like I should mention that The Confusion, once I got back\ninto\nthe swing of that story, ended up being one of my favorite \"adventure\"\nnovels. I highly recommend it!\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:25 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "You know, it's funny. The first chapters of SotT did *not* terribly\nimpress me as to writing style when I first tackled BotNS over a\ndecade ago.\n There was nothing *wrong* with them at all - flawless grammar and\nsyntax\nand what have you. The story itself and its themes began to sweep me\nup as\nthe book really got going, but it wasn't until later in the book or\nseries\nthat the writing itself began to leap out at me as really exquisite\nprose.\n\nPlus, sometimes I wonder if even the writing style itself is 'hidden\nin\nplain sight' from the reader along with so much else. The writing is\n*so*\ngood (grammatical and graceful as Wolfe recommends to aspiring\nwriters) that\nit just ends up doing its job so effectively that you don't always\nnotice it\nuntil you're quite some way into a work.\n\nAlso, I'll here mention that I love the quality of prose in Long and\nShort Suns just as much as New Sun. It's just doing something totally\ndifferent than Severian's baroque machinations.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Antonin Scriabin\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 6, "text": "Wolfe's writing is very beautiful, and he uses such vivid, unique\nlanguage. I haven't memorized the passage, but the part in The\nShadow of\nthe Torturer where Ultan is describing the different books in the\nlibrary;\nwonderful! That together with the nearby Book of Gold passage\nreally made\nme fall in love with that book in particular and Wolfe in general.\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Daniel Petersen\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 7, "text": "Yes, so many truly wonderful lines and passages. I remember loving\nthe\nreally robust mountainous language at the beginning of SotL,\nstarting with\nthe sentence: 'Thrax is a crooked dagger entering the heart of the\nmountains.'\n\nYou know, I don't think I've ever seen Wolfe's writing (as in style\nor\ntone or texture of prose, etc.) discussed on this list.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 3:58 AM, David Stockhoff\n wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "On 12/18/2011 7:59 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 9, "text": "Thought people here might enjoy seeing that new readers are still\ndiscovering Wolfe for the very first time and being instantly\nenchanted. A\nfriend of mine (an aspiring writer) who loves Tolkien and China\nMieville\nfinally, at my persistent insistence, obtained BotNS and posted\nthis to me\non Facebook just now about what he's read so far:\n\n'I love the languid, ivy-wrapped prose that Wolfe writes in. I've\nbeen discovering that this is a style I find myself entranced by\nwhen I read\nit. I was not long ago working through Titus Groan and found\nmyself\nensconced by many of the same elements that I'm loving in Wolfe's\nwriting.\nMr. Wolfe seems much better at marrying plot and poesy than Mr." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Peake,\nhowever." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 9, "text": "I'm very excited about what waits around the corner. BotNS seems\nlike\nthe kind of novel I dream of writing.'\n\nSome pretty apt comments, I thought.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 8, "text": "Cool!\n\nBNS has some of the most gorgeous lines I have ever read. There are\nmany others, but I think most often of the description of lotuses\non Gyoll\nin CotA immediately after Maxellindis's uncle's talk of what\nappear to be\nthe legions of Erebus:\n\nWith that he fell silent, looking out over the nenuphars. We were\nwell\nabove that part of\n\nGyoll opposite the Citadel, but they were still packed more densely\nthan wildflowers in\n\nany meadow this side of paradise.\n\n\nThis kind of mood/content juxtaposition enraptures me.\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T19:12:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Daniel Petersen wrote:\nLooking forward to taking a big\nbite out of his oeuvre, but, recommendations notwithstanding, I'm still\ntotally puzzled about how best to begin to tackle its voluminous bulk!" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "You could do worse than to start at the beginning. _Snow Crash_ is a\nvery funny book, if you can deal with the kind of humor that names a\nbook's main character \"Hiro Protagonist.\" Others really like _The\nDiamond Age_, but it didn't do much for me. I recommend going to the\nrecent _Anathem_, a dark alternate-world novel." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T19:31:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks, Dan'l. I'm usually the type that at least tries to start at the\nbeginning and slog my way through chronologically. We'll see....\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nDaniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Looking forward to taking a big\nbite out of his oeuvre, but, recommendations notwithstanding, I'm still\ntotally puzzled about how best to begin to tackle its voluminous bulk!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You could do worse than to start at the beginning. _Snow Crash_ is a\nvery funny book, if you can deal with the kind of humor that names a\nbook's main character \"Hiro Protagonist.\" Others really like _The\nDiamond Age_, b" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "ut it didn't do much for me. I recommend going to the" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "recent _Anathem_, a dark alternate-world novel.\n--\nDan'l Danehy-Oakes\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1324338033.45909.YahooMailNeo@web114706.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T23:40:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes \nDaniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Looking forward to taking a big\nbite out of his oeuvre, but, recommendations notwithstanding, I'm still\ntotally puzzled about how best to begin to tackle its voluminous bulk!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "You could do worse than to start at the beginning. _Snow Crash_ is a\nvery funny book, if you can deal with the kind of humor that names a\nbook's main character \"Hiro Protagonist.\" Others really like _The\nDiamond Age_, but it didn't do much for me. I recommend going to the\nrecent _Anathem_, a dark alternate-world novel." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Actually, /The Big U/ was the first. I found it intermittently amusing, but a lot of people didn't find it amusing at all. I second the recommendation to start with /Snow Crash/. I haven't read /Anathem/, and I agree with Dan'l about /The Diamond Age/.\n\nOn Antonin's comment, I'm both a Gibson and a Stephenson person, though I like /Neuromancer/ better than anything by Stephenson that I've read. Likewise I like both /The Lord of the Rings/ and /Bored of the Rings/, though I haven't reread the latter since I was a teenager.\n\nWhere are the Wolfe parodies?\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1324338182.10333.YahooMailNeo@web114702.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2011-12-19T23:43:02+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes \nI have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of which totally blow me\naway with the beauty of the language.\n\nMy favorite, however, must be the passage in _Citadel_ where he\nrealizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a rosebush, ending with\nthe line about throwing his boots into the sea so that he might not\nwalk shod on holy land." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Also a favorite of mine, no one will be surprised to hear, along with the other set piece about the forms of governance.\n\nFor some friends of mine who don't like Wolfe, the style is what puts them off. They find it verbose. No accounting for tastes.\n\nJerry Friedman" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EEFD328.4030504@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-12-20T00:13:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "<1324338033.45909.YahooMailNeo@web114706.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/19/2011 6:40 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:\nFrom: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\nDaniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Looking forward to taking a big\nbite out of his oeuvre, but, recommendations notwithstanding, I'm still\ntotally puzzled about how best to begin to tackle its voluminous bulk!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "You could do worse than to start at the beginning. _Snow Crash_ is a\nvery funny book, if you can deal with the kind of humor that names a\nbook's main character \"Hiro Protagonist.\" Others really like _The\nDiamond Age_, but it didn't do much for me. I recommend going to the\nrecent _Anathem_, a dark alternate-world novel." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Actually, /The Big U/ was the first. I found it intermittently amusing, but a lot of people didn't find it amusing at all. I second the recommendation to start with /Snow Crash/. I haven't read /Anathem/, and I agree with Dan'l about /The Diamond Age/.\n \nOn Antonin's comment, I'm both a Gibson and a Stephenson person, though I like /Neuromancer/ better than anything by Stephenson that I've read. Likewise I like both /The Lord of the Rings/ and /Bored of the Rings/, though I haven't reread the latter since I was a teenager." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Snow Crash and Diamond Age both seemed to me like skilled but hollow \nattempts to accomplish obvious goals. As though a teacher had assigned \nthe writing of novels with certain plot points, topics, elements ... a \nfeeling one sometimes gets from computer games.\n\nHis short story more or less set in the same world as Diamond Age was \nbrilliant, however. And I loved the hoplite officer." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EEFD369.7050000@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-12-20T00:14:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "<1324338182.10333.YahooMailNeo@web114702.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 12/19/2011 6:43 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:\nFrom: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\nI have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of which totally blow me\naway with the beauty of the language.\n\nMy favorite, however, must be the passage in _Citadel_ where he\nrealizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a rosebush, ending with\nthe line about throwing his boots into the sea so that he might not\nwalk shod on holy land." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Also a favorite of mine, no one will be surprised to hear, along with the other set piece about the forms of governance.\n\nFor some friends of mine who don't like Wolfe, the style is what puts them off. They find it verbose. No accounting for tastes." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Verbose, but precise, and always with a sting. Much like Avram Davidson." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-20T10:00:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "<4EEFD369.7050000@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On the other hand, I often find those who love Wolfe's ornate verbosity in\nBotNS don't like his more bare and minimalist style in the other books. I\nthink he's an unspeakably talented artist that he can handle so deftly\nthese different voices and styles.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nOn 12/19/2011 6:43 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\nI have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of which totally blow me\naway with the beauty of the language." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "My favorite, however, must be the passage in _Citadel_ where he\nrealizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a rosebush, ending with\nthe line about throwing his boots into the sea so that he might not\nwalk shod on holy land." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Also a favorite of mine, no one will be surprised to hear, along with the\nother set piece about the forms of governance.\n\nFor some friends of mine who don't like Wolfe, the style is what puts\nthem off. They find it verbose. No accounting for tastes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Verbose, but precise, and always with a sting. Much like Avram Davidson.\n\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-20T14:16:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Well, I have never met someone in real life who has read Wolfe! I am\ntrying to proselytize, however, and have started picking up used copies of\nmy favorites to give away." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:\nOn the other hand, I often find those who love Wolfe's ornate verbosity in\nBotNS don't like his more bare and minimalist style in the other books. I\nthink he's an unspeakably talented artist that he can handle so deftly\nthese different voices and styles.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 12/19/2011 6:43 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes\nI have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of which totally blow me\naway with the beauty of the language." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "My favorite, however, must be the passage in _Citadel_ where he\nrealizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a rosebush, ending with\nthe line about throwing his boots into the sea so that he might not\nwalk shod on holy land." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Also a favorite of mine, no one will be surprised to hear, along with\nthe other set piece about the forms of governance.\n\nFor some friends of mine who don't like Wolfe, the style is what puts\nthem off. They find it verbose. No accounting for tastes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Verbose, but precise, and always with a sting. Much like Avram Davidson.\n\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-20T21:16:18+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Alas, nor have I, Antonin! I was speaking of people's comments online.\n\n-DOJP (The friend whose comments I shared that started this thread lives\nacross and ocean from me - when I see him face to face again, I'll have\nfinally met in the flesh a fellow Wolfe fan!)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Antonin Scriabin\nwrote:\nWell, I have never met someone in real life who has read Wolfe! I am\ntrying to proselytize, however, and have started picking up used copies of\nmy favorites to give away.\n\nOn Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On the other hand, I often find those who love Wolfe's ornate verbosity\nin BotNS don't like his more bare and minimalist style in the other books.\n I think he's an unspeakably talented artist that he can handle so deftly\nthese different voices and styles.\n\n-DOJP\n\n\nOn Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM, David Stockhoff \nI have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of which totally blow me\naway with the beauty of the language." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 5, "text": "My favorite, however, must be the passage in _Citadel_ where he\nrealizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a rosebush, ending with\nthe line about throwing his boots into the sea so that he might not\nwalk shod on holy land." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 4, "text": "Also a favorite of mine, no one will be surprised to hear, along with\nthe other set piece about the forms of governance.\n\nFor some friends of mine who don't like Wolfe, the style is what puts\nthem off. They find it verbose. No accounting for tastes." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "Verbose, but precise, and always with a sting. Much like Avram Davidson.\n\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EF10836.60709@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-12-20T22:12:06+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I recently had an anesthesiologist whose wife had read Short Sun (he \nrecognized the cover of my copy). That's the closest to an actual flesh \nencounter I have come.\n\nDo we need to start approaching strangers in bookstores to speak \nstammeringly to them, plucking at their sleeves and drooling, and \ninsisting on the superiority of our Master?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/20/2011 4:16 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nAlas, nor have I, Antonin! I was speaking of people's comments online.\n\n-DOJP (The friend whose comments I shared that started this thread \nlives across and ocean from me - when I see him face to face again, \nI'll have finally met in the flesh a fellow Wolfe fan!)\n\nOn Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Antonin Scriabin \n> wrote:\n\n Well, I have never met someone in real life who has read Wolfe! I\n am trying to proselytize, however, and have started picking up\n used copies of my favorites to give away.\n\n On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:00 AM, Daniel Petersen\n > wrote:\n\n On the other hand, I often find those who love Wolfe's ornate\n verbosity in BotNS don't like his more bare and minimalist\n style in the other books. I think he's an unspeakably\n talented artist that he can handle so deftly these different\n voices and styles.\n\n -DOJP\n\n\n On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 12:14 AM, David Stockhoff\n > wrote:\n\n On 12/19/2011 6:43 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n\n From: Dan'l Danehy-Oakes>\n I have many favorite passages in tBotNS, all of\n which totally blow me\n away with the beauty of the language.\n\n My favorite, however, must be the passage in\n _Citadel_ where he\n realizes that the Claw was just the thorn of a\n rosebush, ending with\n the line about throwing his boots into the sea so\n that he might not\n walk shod on holy land.\n\n Also a favorite of mine, no one will be surprised to\n hear, along with the other set piece about the forms\n of governance.\n\n For some friends of mine who don't like Wolfe, the\n style is what puts them off. They find it verbose.\n No accounting for tastes.\n\n\n Verbose, but precise, and always with a sting. Much like\n Avram Davidson.\n\n _______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-20T22:21:42+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "<4EF10836.60709@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff wrote:\nDo we need to start approaching strangers in bookstores to speak\nstammeringly to them, plucking at their sleeves and drooling, and insisting\non the superiority of our Master?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "And afterwards sic our pets on him?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4EF10CCC.9090308@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2011-12-20T22:31:40+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 12/20/2011 5:21 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nDavid Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Do we need to start approaching strangers in bookstores to speak\nstammeringly to them, plucking at their sleeves and drooling, and insisting\non the superiority of our Master?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "And afterwards sic our pets on him?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On the Master? Never!\n\nBesides, I hear he has a hound of fearsome countenance who accompanies \nhim on his evening walks. Or a yap-dog, at any rate. So says Ryan." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-20T23:41:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "<4EF10836.60709@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:12 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\n...\n\nDo we need to start approaching strangers in bookstores to speak\nstammeringly to them, plucking at their sleeves and drooling, and insisting\non the superiority of our Master?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Uh, yep, looks like it.\n\n(Hey, I've got my teenage daughter reading her first Wolfe over the\nholidays - Innocents Aboard. She's loving it so far. She read the opening\nof 'The Legend of Xi Cygnus' out loud to me because she thought it was so\ncool. So maybe I will have a daily in the flesh fellow Wolfe fan in my\nlife, heh!)\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Matthew Keeley", "address": "matthew.keeley.1 at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-21T01:19:14+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 9:16 AM, Antonin Scriabin\nwrote:\nWell, I have never met someone in real life who has read Wolfe! I am\ntrying to proselytize, however, and have started picking up used copies of\nmy favorites to give away." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I have met many people who have read Wolfe (and the one person who wrote\nWolfe), but only at a science fiction convention, and so I feel that\ndoesn't quite count. I do have one friend who may or may not have read an\nunidentified work by Wolfe several years back, but he wasn't totally sure\nof either title or author. My attempts to convince other people to read his\nwork have been unsuccessful.\n\nThough at least one local independent bookstore does have Shadow & Claw\nnext to a \"We Recommend\" sign.\n\n-Matt" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Antonin Scriabin", "address": "kierkegaurdian at gmail.com" }, "date": "2011-12-21T14:07:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) instant new fan", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am trying to get people to ask about him by sticking the books on the\nshelf right near my front door. I have all of Wolfe's novels (multiple\ncopies of some) and most of the short story collections. It takes up a lot\nof space! Occasionally I will have someone ask \"So who is this Wolfe\nfella?\" but no one has bit for real yet. Hopefully soon!" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 6:41 PM, Daniel Petersen <\ndanielottojackpetersen at gmail.com> wrote:\nOn Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 10:12 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "...\n\n\nDo we need to start approaching strangers in bookstores to speak\nstammeringly to them, plucking at their sleeves and drooling, and insisting\non the superiority of our Master?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Uh, yep, looks like it.\n\n(Hey, I've got my teenage daughter reading her first Wolfe over the\nholidays - Innocents Aboard. She's loving it so far. She read the opening\nof 'The Legend of Xi Cygnus' out loud to me because she thought it was so\ncool. So maybe I will have a daily in the flesh fellow Wolfe fan in my\nlife, heh!)\n\n-DOJP\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }