{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6197", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6197, "subject": "Two More Arrivals", "messages": 19, "voices": 10, "first": "2012-03-23T18:56:21+00:00", "last": "2012-03-25T22:50:55+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fred Kiesche", "address": "godelescherbach at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-23T18:56:21+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Two More Arrivals", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Greetings:\n\nThe filling back in of missing Wolfe volumes continued today with the\narrival of the Tor/Orb TPB of THE ISLAND OF DOCTOR DEATH AND OTHER STORIES\nAND OTHER STORIES and the HC (first edition, first printing) of PEACE.\n\nPEACE did not age well in terms of the dustjacket. I had a paperback and it\nwas white with the raised lettering and it got dirty, just from reading,\nfast. This one (I assume) was a white dustjacket at one point with raised\nlettering. Now it is a brown dustjacket (yellowing due to acid in the\npaper?). The interior is brand-spanking new looking!\n\nMore volumes on the way. The gaps will be filled, soon." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "F.P. Kiesche III \"Ah Mr. Gibbon, another damned, fat, square book. Always,\nscribble, scribble, scribble, eh?\" (The Duke of Gloucester, on being\npresented with Volume 2 of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.)\nBlogging at The Lensman's Children (\nhttp://theeternalgoldenbraid.blogspot.com/)." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4F6CDE27.9080304@gmail.com>", "from": { "name": "James Wynn", "address": "crushtv at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-23T20:33:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Two More Arrivals", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think that is the original coloring. Mine is the same." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 3/23/2012 1:56 PM, Fred Kiesche wrote:\n\nPEACE did not age well in terms of the dustjacket. I had a paperback \nand it was white with the raised lettering and it got dirty, just from \nreading, fast. This one (I assume) was a white dustjacket at one point \nwith raised lettering. Now it is a brown dustjacket (yellowing due to \nacid in the paper?). The interior is brand-spanking new looking!" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1332548983.21580.YahooMailClassic@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-24T00:29:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<4F6CDE27.9080304@gmail.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I thought I would try an apocryphal Wolfe from 1951 to begin the project and see what sections I should include in the opening.\n\nEaster Sunday is from the first published year of Wolfe's work, and it is fairly straightforward, so I think this would be a great trial. \n\n\nHere is a link with the entire story. The best part of this is the Reverend's COMPLETE LACK OF RECOGNITION of the devil and the Devil's limp.\n\nhttp://www.revolutionsf.com/fiction/eastersunday/01.html\n\nThis is the set up I was thinking about:\n\nSUMMARY (especially included for uncollected stories): Reverend Dobson stops for a break in the park while he is thinking about preparing for Easter Sunday and the picnic. He sits next to an aristocratic and distinguished gentleman with \"superior\" features and tries to start a conversation. The gentleman reveals that he was a revolutionist and asserts that the only unforgivable crime peasants can commit is to doubt the \"master\". Reverend Dobson asks if he is a Trotskite, and the stranger smiles and asserts that he is a revolutionary far older than Trotski. Of course as the stranger departs he has a limp, and his left foot clatters like a hoof. Dobson concludes that it was due to an artificial limb.\n\nINTERESTING DETAILS: Dobson's inner thoughts are key to the true state of his faith. \"He momentarily forgot Mrs. Albright, who acted so superior and left a dime in the collection plate, the worries of the coming Sunday School picnic\" ... \"He was a religious man with no hint of fear in his love of God.\"\n\nDobson is so obsessed by the petty concerns of ire over a woman who believes herself to be superior but does not truly give and the stresses of preparing for Easter that it is only in the park that he can forget that \"momentarily\". The devil is described as a noble and superior being full of dignity. He describes God as someone who plans on his son following him, but who runs a bizarre system that will forgive any atrocity except doubt. \n\nIt is unclear whether Dobson is a Protestant or Catholic Reverend, but he is never called \"Father\".\n\n\nALLUSIONS: of course this summons the rebellion in heaven and the devil appears to have sustained a leg wound.\nIn literary terms, this seems a pretty clear descendant of Nathaniel Hawthorne's short stories or the Pilgrim's Progress - in which the clergy are faced with manifestations of the devil as in Young Goodman Brown in a fairly benign setting - the difference being that the civilized veneer never leaves this short piece.\n\nFUTURE ECHOES: Talking of the Master and the son that will replace him as a real world leader with unreasonable expectations echoes some of the talk about Pas in Long Sun and the argument that Thecla makes against religion in the cell with Severian.\n\nThe limp that Severian and Silk acquire is here present on the devil, though he is a noble pragmatist who rebelled KNOWING that he would fail, but did it anyway at the cost of losing paradise.\n\nRELIGIOUS SYMBOLS: Here the collection plate and the actual idea of Easter Sunday are pretty big: Easter is the day on which Christ rises from the dead and defeats death, and it is the day on which Catholics can once again leave their lenten fasting behind. [This section will be MUCH more useful in later stories]" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1332603343.36984.YahooMailNeo@web114714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Jerry Friedman", "address": "jerry_friedman at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-24T15:35:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<1332548983.21580.YahooMailClassic@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From: Marc Aramini \nI thought I would try an apocryphal Wolfe from 1951 to begin the project and see \nwhat sections I should include in the opening.\n\nEaster Sunday is from the first published year of Wolfe's work, and it is \nfairly straightforward, so I think this would be a great trial. \n\n\nHere is a link with the entire story. The best part of this is the \nReverend's COMPLETE LACK OF RECOGNITION of the devil and the Devil's \nlimp." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree. This sort of irony would show up again in Wolfe's work.\n\nThe fantasy and the non-recognition feel Chestertonian to me--the supernatural in the midst of life--though I don't know Chesterton well, so I won't be surprised if I'm wrong." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "http://www.revolutionsf.com/fiction/eastersunday/01.html" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for finding links to these stories.\n..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "INTERESTING DETAILS: Dobson's inner thoughts are key to the true state of \nhis faith. \"He momentarily forgot Mrs. Albright, who acted so superior and \nleft a dime in the collection plate, the worries of the coming Sunday School \npicnic\" ... \"He was a religious man with no hint of fear in his love \nof God.\"" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Though the story demonstrates that he should fear, since the Devil is real. (Or that he doesn't need to, since the Devil is apparently powerless to do more than complain.)" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dobson is so obsessed by the petty concerns of ire over a woman who believes \nherself to be superior but does not truly give and the stresses of preparing for \nEaster that it is only in the park that he can forget that \n\"momentarily\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I think it's more that he's human than that he's obsessed. Doesn't everyone think about job-related stresses and annoyances?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "The devil is described as a noble and superior being \nfull of dignity. He describes God as someone who plans on his son following \nhim, but who runs a bizarre system that will forgive any atrocity except doubt. " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Was Wolfe Christian yet? This is dangerous territory for a Christian, as people might start thinking, \"Yes, God does act like a dictator.\"" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "It is unclear whether Dobson is a Protestant or Catholic Reverend, but he is \nnever called \"Father\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "...\n\nAlso, \"Reverend Dobson\" and \"The Reverend\" not followed by a name are formally incorrect. I'm a bit surprised that Wolfe used them anyway--though I didn't know those things when I was in college.\n\nJerry Friedman\n---- Original Message -----" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1332604565.15058.YahooMailClassic@web161806.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-24T15:56:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<1332603343.36984.YahooMailNeo@web114714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Sat, 3/24/12, Jerry Friedman wrote:\n\nAlso, \"Reverend Dobson\" and \"The Reverend\" not followed by a\nname are formally incorrect. I'm a bit surprised that\nWolfe used them anyway--though I didn't know those things\nwhen I was in college.\n\nJerry Friedman\n---- Original Message -----" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Oh, I am pretty sure he converted to Catholicism to marry Rosemary circa late 1950s, so he would have been more like a lax Protestant at this point - ie - perhaps interested in religion but not committed to it as fully as he would later become. So perhaps Dobson is a Protestant minister, but it is impossible to say." } ] }, { "message_id": "<511A2C982AC8417A86AEFFFD71FF4B7D@Rover>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2012-03-24T21:53:26+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<1332603343.36984.YahooMailNeo@web114714.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: Jerry Friedman " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Easter Sunday is from the first published year of Wolfe's work, and it is \nfairly straightforward, so I think this would be a great trial. \n\nHere is a link with the entire story. The best part of this is the \nReverend's COMPLETE LACK OF RECOGNITION of the devil and the Devil's \nlimp." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Enjoyable enough albeit a bit obvious. But why does the Devil have a limp? Is there a tradition here I am unaware of?\n\nNo doubt Lee will chime in to point out that this means Severian is the Devil \n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n " } ] }, { "message_id": "<1332626651.63743.YahooMailClassic@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-24T22:04:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<511A2C982AC8417A86AEFFFD71FF4B7D@Rover>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "According to commentary I once read on the Master and Margarita on oil being rubbed into someone's knee, the injured leg of Satan is commonly attributed to his fall from heaven ... but I don't know of a REAL source for this - it isn't biblical as far as I know.\n\n--- On Sat, 3/24/12, Gerry Quinn wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Gerry Quinn \nSubject: Re: (urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday\nTo: \"Jerry Friedman\" , \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:53 PM\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nEnjoyable enough albeit a bit obvious. But why does the Devil have a limp? Is there a tradition here I am unaware of?\n\nNo doubt Lee will chime in to point out that this means Severian is the Devil \n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4F6E46B7.7080204@irit.fr>", "from": { "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV", "address": "soloviev at irit.fr" }, "date": "2012-03-24T22:12:07+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<1332626651.63743.YahooMailClassic@web161801.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Is there nothing in \"Paradise Lost\" on this?\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:\nAccording to commentary I once read on the Master and Margarita on oil \nbeing rubbed into someone's knee, the injured leg of Satan is commonly \nattributed to his fall from heaven ... but I don't know of a REAL \nsource for this - it isn't biblical as far as I know.\n\n--- On *Sat, 3/24/12, Gerry Quinn //* wrote:\n\n\n From: Gerry Quinn \n Subject: Re: (urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday\n To: \"Jerry Friedman\" , \"The Urth Mailing\n List\" \n Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:53 PM\n\n \n Enjoyable enough albeit a bit obvious. But why does the Devil\n have a limp? Is there a tradition here I am unaware of?\n \n No doubt Lee will chime in to point out that this means Severian\n is the Devil Winking smile\n \n - Gerry Quinn\n \n \n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1332634663.16197.YahooMailNeo@web121004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T00:17:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<4F6E46B7.7080204@irit.fr>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "There's a tradition in some medieval texts and late medieval morality plays that the devil limps when he's in disguise because he's got hooves instead of feet. And unless I'm completely wrong, it's not in Milton.\n\n\n\n \nIs there nothing in \"Paradise Lost\" on this?\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:\nAccording to commentary I once read on the Master and Margarita on oil being rubbed into someone's knee, the injured leg of Satan is commonly attributed to his fall from heaven ... but I don't know of a REAL source for this - it isn't biblical as far as I know.\n\n--- On *Sat, 3/24/12, Gerry Quinn //* wrote:\n\n\n? ? From: Gerry Quinn \n? ? Subject: Re: (urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday\n? ? To: \"Jerry Friedman\" , \"The Urth Mailing\n? ? List\" \n? ? Date: Saturday, March 24, 2012, 2:53 PM\n\n? ? ? ? ? Enjoyable enough albeit a bit obvious. But why does the Devil\n? ? have a limp? Is there a tradition here I am unaware of?\n? ? ? ? ? No doubt Lee will chime in to point out that this means Severian\n? ? is the Devil Winking smile\n? ? ? ? ? - Gerry Quinn\n? ? ? ? ? \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________\nUrth Mailing List\nTo post, write urth at urth.net\nSubscription/information: http://www.urth.net" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "David Duffy", "address": "david.duffy at qimr.edu.au" }, "date": "2012-03-25T11:48:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<1332634663.16197.YahooMailNeo@web121004.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Sat, 24 Mar 2012, Craig Brewer wrote:\nThere's a tradition in some medieval texts and late medieval morality \nplays that the devil limps when he's in disguise because he's got hooves \ninstead of feet. And unless I'm completely wrong, it's not in Milton." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Mephistopheles in Goethe's Faust has a limp, but not Marlowe's AFAIK." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nick Lee", "address": "starwaterstrain at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T16:32:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Gerry Quinn:\n\n\"Enjoyable enough albeit a bit obvious. But why does the Devil have a\nlimp? Is there a tradition here I am unaware of?\n\nNo doubt Lee will chime in to point out that this means Severian is the\nDevil\"\n\nYes, there is, and Lee could have a point. Craig and Marc have chimed in on\nthis already, and I'll offer some more context.\n\nThe lame god is a motif in mythology. We all know that Vulcan is the lame\ngod of Classical tradition is Hephaestus (Vulcan). Cast down by Zeus, he\nwalks with a limp. The Christians of the past few hundred years (after\nSatan was codified), conflated the two and concluded that Satan was the\nlame god, injured following his fall from Heaven.\n\nThe idea that the limp is caused by a cloven foot is present in tales as\nwell, although I'm not clear on how that started.\n\nThere is also the \"lame devil,\" Asmodeus. I don't know if the conflation I\nmentioned originated here, in the 1707 novel The Lame Devil or if it\npredates it. I just discovered it myself. The nickname was offered to Lord\nByron (he had a club foot) and other historical figures as well.\n\nNow here's some more information I just found. It never occurred to me to\nresearch Slavic mythology (although the presence of the Severian tribe\nshould have suggested it).\n\nDazbog is a Slavic god, a solar deity, a ruler of the underworld, depicted\nas a \"lame shepherd of wolves.\"\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da%C5%BEbog\n\nI'll be stopping by my local library to pick up something on Slavic\nmythology. Even if Wolfe has never heard of him, this is fascinating stuff." } ] }, { "message_id": "<8165C628-EADA-46FA-90D5-C595480C3985@yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T17:09:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, Hephaestus. Of course. And the reverend does suppose it's an artificial limb.\n\nBut Vulcan never had that seething resentment. Dunno, seems basically like a nice little Easter fable." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mar 25, 2012, at 11:32 AM, Nick Lee wrote:\nGerry Quinn:\n\n\"Enjoyable enough albeit a bit obvious. But why does the Devil have a limp? Is there a tradition here I am unaware of?\n\nNo doubt Lee will chime in to point out that this means Severian is the Devil\"\n\nYes, there is, and Lee could have a point. Craig and Marc have chimed in on this already, and I'll offer some more context.\n\nThe lame god is a motif in mythology. We all know that Vulcan is the lame god of Classical tradition is Hephaestus (Vulcan). Cast down by Zeus, he walks with a limp. The Christians of the past few hundred years (after Satan was codified), conflated the two and concluded that Satan was the lame god, injured following his fall from Heaven.\n\nThe idea that the limp is caused by a cloven foot is present in tales as well, although I'm not clear on how that started.\n\nThere is also the \"lame devil,\" Asmodeus. I don't know if the conflation I mentioned originated here, in the 1707 novel The Lame Devil or if it predates it. I just discovered it myself. The nickname was offered to Lord Byron (he had a club foot) and other historical figures as well.\n\nNow here's some more information I just found. It never occurred to me to research Slavic mythology (although the presence of the Severian tribe should have suggested it).\n\nDazbog is a Slavic god, a solar deity, a ruler of the underworld, depicted as a \"lame shepherd of wolves.\"\n\nhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da%C5%BEbog\n\nI'll be stopping by my local library to pick up something on Slavic mythology. Even if Wolfe has never heard of him, this is fascinating stuff.\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<3A812F3C-3251-42EF-977A-29470CAFF318@yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T17:22:11+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<1332548983.21580.YahooMailClassic@web161802.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "We also can't forget, of course, that the Church of the Subgenius worships Bob Dobson.\n\nWhat strikes me, though, is how toothless the devil is. He just reinforces Dobson's self involvement and seems entirely self-involved himself. He's afraid of the Easter bells and seems just as tellingly to misrecognize what is like him in Dobson. If there is something \"Wolfean\" about this, it's that the surface story isn't much of a story...the drama already happened (for the devil) and is ongoing in the implications for Dobson's soul/life/whatever." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Mar 23, 2012, at 7:29 PM, Marc Aramini wrote:\nI thought I would try an apocryphal Wolfe from 1951 to begin the project and see what sections I should include in the opening.\n\nEaster Sunday is from the first published year of Wolfe's work, and it is fairly straightforward, so I think this would be a great trial. \n\n\nHere is a link with the entire story. The best part of this is the Reverend's COMPLETE LACK OF RECOGNITION of the devil and the Devil's limp.\n\nhttp://www.revolutionsf.com/fiction/eastersunday/01.html\n\nThis is the set up I was thinking about:\n\nSUMMARY (especially included for uncollected stories): Reverend Dobson stops for a break in the park while he is thinking about preparing for Easter Sunday and the picnic. He sits next to an aristocratic and distinguished gentleman with \"superior\" features and tries to start a conversation. The gentleman reveals that he was a revolutionist and asserts that the only unforgivable crime peasants can commit is to doubt the \"master\". Reverend Dobson asks if he is a Trotskite, and the stranger smiles and asserts that he is a revolutionary far older than Trotski. Of course as the stranger departs he has a limp, and his left foot clatters like a hoof. Dobson concludes that it was due to an artificial limb.\n\nINTERESTING DETAILS: Dobson's inner thoughts are key to the true state of his faith. \"He momentarily forgot Mrs. Albright, who acted so superior and left a dime in the collection plate, the worries of the coming Sunday School picnic\" ... \"He was a religious man with no hint of fear in his love of God.\"\n\nDobson is so obsessed by the petty concerns of ire over a woman who believes herself to be superior but does not truly give and the stresses of preparing for Easter that it is only in the park that he can forget that \"momentarily\". The devil is described as a noble and superior being full of dignity. He describes God as someone who plans on his son following him, but who runs a bizarre system that will forgive any atrocity except doubt. \n\nIt is unclear whether Dobson is a Protestant or Catholic Reverend, but he is never called \"Father\".\n\n\nALLUSIONS: of course this summons the rebellion in heaven and the devil appears to have sustained a leg wound.\nIn literary terms, this seems a pretty clear descendant of Nathaniel Hawthorne's short stories or the Pilgrim's Progress - in which the clergy are faced with manifestations of the devil as in Young Goodman Brown in a fairly benign setting - the difference being that the civilized veneer never leaves this short piece.\n\nFUTURE ECHOES: Talking of the Master and the son that will replace him as a real world leader with unreasonable expectations echoes some of the talk about Pas in Long Sun and the argument that Thecla makes against religion in the cell with Severian.\n\nThe limp that Severian and Silk acquire is here present on the devil, though he is a noble pragmatist who rebelled KNOWING that he would fail, but did it anyway at the cost of losing paradise.\n\nRELIGIOUS SYMBOLS: Here the collection plate and the actual idea of Easter Sunday are pretty big: Easter is the day on which Christ rises from the dead and defeats death, and it is the day on which Catholics can once again leave their lenten fasting behind. [This section will be MUCH more useful in later stories]\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1332698218.81274.YahooMailClassic@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T17:56:58+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<3A812F3C-3251-42EF-977A-29470CAFF318@yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I agree - there is a certain parallel between their self-involvement - while the devil does not seem truly evil, DOBSON can't recognize the devil because he is so wrapped up in banal thoughts (can he recognize evil at all?), though the title is Easter Sunday - the triumph of Christ over death and sin for those who accept him." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Sun, 3/25/12, Craig Brewer wrote:\nFrom: Craig Brewer \nSubject: Re: (urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Sunday, March 25, 2012, 10:22 AM\nWe also can't forget, of course, that\nthe Church of the Subgenius worships Bob Dobson.\n\nWhat strikes me, though, is how toothless the devil is. He\njust reinforces Dobson's self involvement and seems entirely\nself-involved himself. He's afraid of the Easter bells and\nseems just as tellingly to misrecognize what is like him in\nDobson. If there is something \"Wolfean\" about this, it's\nthat the surface story isn't much of a story...the drama\nalready happened (for the devil) and is ongoing in the\nimplications for Dobson's soul/life/whatever." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nick Lee", "address": "starwaterstrain at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T18:07:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Craig Brewer wrote:\n\n\"But Vulcan never had that seething resentment.\"\n\nActually, in the myth where it is Hera who throws down Hephaestus for being\nugly, he reacts by imprisoning her. Then there's the whole Ares and\nAphrodite love triangle." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Fred Kiesche", "address": "godelescherbach at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T20:10:29+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<1332698218.81274.YahooMailClassic@web161804.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "On limps: The main character in the \"Space\" trilogy of C.S. Lewis is bitten\non the heel in Perelandra by the transformed scientist from the first book.\nHe carries the wound in the third book (That Hideous Strength). Can't\nrecall if it is his left leg or not.\n\nAnd let's not forget the (cough) \"sinister\" aspects of the left (left\nhandedness being evil).\n\nOn Mar 25, 2012 1:57 PM, \"Marc Aramini\" wrote:\n\nI agree - there is a certain parallel between their self-involvement -\nwhile the devil does not seem truly evil, DOBSON can't recognize the devil\nbecause he is so wrapped up in banal thoughts (can he recognize evil at\nall?), though the title is Easter Sunday - the triumph of Christ over death\nand sin for those who accept him." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "--- On Sun, 3/25/12, Craig Brewer wrote:\nFrom: Craig Brewer " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Subject: Re: (urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Sunday, March 25, 2012, 10:22 AM" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "We also can't forget, of course, that\nthe Church of the Subgenius worships Bob Dobson.\n\nWhat..." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T21:11:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "<3A812F3C-3251-42EF-977A-29470CAFF318@yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Craig Brewer wrote:\nWe also can't forget, of course, that the Church of the Subgenius worships Bob Dobson." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ummm, no. J.R. \" Bob\" Dobbs." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "What strikes me, though, is how toothless the devil is. He just reinforces Dobson's self\ninvolvement and seems entirely self-involved himself." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "That seems utterly like the Devil, to encourage a man's besetting sin..." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Craig Brewer", "address": "cnbrewer at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T21:17:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Doh! I'll get my subgenius card revoked." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nCraig Brewer wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "We also can't forget, of course, that the Church of the Subgenius worships Bob Dobson." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Ummm, no. J.R. \" Bob\" Dobbs." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "What strikes me, though, is how toothless the devil is. He just reinforces Dobson's self\ninvolvement and seems entirely self-involved himself." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "That seems utterly like the Devil, to encourage a man's besetting sin...\n\n-- \nDan'l Danehy-Oakes\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Nick Lee", "address": "starwaterstrain at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-25T22:50:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Trial summer project short story: Easter Sunday", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Craig Brewer:\n\n\"Doh! I'll get my subgenius card revoked. \"\n\nYou could always become a Discordian pope." } ] } ] }