{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6206", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6206, "subject": "Robots", "messages": 4, "voices": 4, "first": "2012-03-28T17:11:01+00:00", "last": "2012-03-29T16:05:20+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes", "address": "danldo at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-03-28T17:11:01+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Robots", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff wrote:\nWithout having read the story (though I will), I want to comment that the\n\"moral robot\" has been around at least since Asimov's \"3 laws,\" which\nbasically hardwired robots to be MORE moral than humans. Naturally they\nrepresent the kind of rational and dispassionate morality that we humans,\nfor a few hundred years at least, were imagined to aspire to." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "More to the point, the Three Laws of Robotics are designed to make\nAsimovian robots the perfect slaves, and thus a coded way of talking\nabout the situation of minority persons in general and blacks in particular\nat a time when you couldn't openly talk about that stuff in popular fiction.\n(If you have any doubt about this, note how hostile humans refer to a\nrobot as \"boy.\") Reading Asimov's early robot stories with this in mind\nopens a whole world of social commentary right there on the surface." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Dan'l Danehy-Oakes" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4F738EC7.1020207@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2012-03-28T22:20:55+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Robots", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 3/28/2012 1:11 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\nDavid Stockhoff wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Without having read the story (though I will), I want to comment that the\n\"moral robot\" has been around at least since Asimov's \"3 laws,\" which\nbasically hardwired robots to be MORE moral than humans. Naturally they\nrepresent the kind of rational and dispassionate morality that we humans,\nfor a few hundred years at least, were imagined to aspire to." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "More to the point, the Three Laws of Robotics are designed to make\nAsimovian robots the perfect slaves, and thus a coded way of talking\nabout the situation of minority persons in general and blacks in particular\nat a time when you couldn't openly talk about that stuff in popular fiction.\n(If you have any doubt about this, note how hostile humans refer to a\nrobot as \"boy.\") Reading Asimov's early robot stories with this in mind\nopens a whole world of social commentary right there on the surface." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, the double-standard regarding murder is especially ironic in that \nlight. I don't actually recall that use of \"boy\"---but then I wouldn't, \nwould I." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Allan Anderson", "address": "rubel at goosemoon.org" }, "date": "2012-03-29T01:16:45+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Robots", "in_reply_to": "<4F738EC7.1020207@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:20 PM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nOn 3/28/2012 1:11 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "David Stockhoff wrote:\n\n Without having read the story (though I will), I want to comment that the\n\"moral robot\" has been around at least since Asimov's \"3 laws,\" which\nbasically hardwired robots to be MORE moral than humans. Naturally they\nrepresent the kind of rational and dispassionate morality that we humans,\nfor a few hundred years at least, were imagined to aspire to." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "More to the point, the Three Laws of Robotics are designed to make\nAsimovian robots the perfect slaves, and thus a coded way of talking\nabout the situation of minority persons in general and blacks in\nparticular\nat a time when you couldn't openly talk about that stuff in popular\nfiction.\n(If you have any doubt about this, note how hostile humans refer to a\nrobot as \"boy.\") Reading Asimov's early robot stories with this in mind\nopens a whole world of social commentary right there on the surface." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Yes, the double-standard regarding murder is especially ironic in that\nlight. I don't actually recall that use of \"boy\"---but then I wouldn't,\nwould I." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Ah, right--I remember this from Elijah Baley in _The Caves of Steel_,\nbefore he became a stinking robo-sympathizer. Excellent points. I remember\nwondering if Asimov was making a coherent point with that, or just\nappropriating a term for its emotional impact." } ] }, { "message_id": "<4F748840.1080801@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2012-03-29T16:05:20+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Robots", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 3/28/2012 8:16 PM, Allan Anderson wrote:\nOn Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 3:20 PM, David Stockhoff > wrote:\n\n On 3/28/2012 1:11 PM, Dan'l Danehy-Oakes wrote:\n\n David Stockhoff wrote:\n\n Without having read the story (though I will), I want to\n comment that the\n \"moral robot\" has been around at least since Asimov's \"3\n laws,\" which\n basically hardwired robots to be MORE moral than humans.\n Naturally they\n represent the kind of rational and dispassionate morality\n that we humans,\n for a few hundred years at least, were imagined to aspire to.\n\n More to the point, the Three Laws of Robotics are designed to make\n Asimovian robots the perfect slaves, and thus a coded way of talking\n about the situation of minority persons in general and blacks in\n particular\n at a time when you couldn't openly talk about that stuff in\n popular fiction.\n (If you have any doubt about this, note how hostile humans refer\n to a\n robot as \"boy.\") Reading Asimov's early robot stories with this\n in mind\n opens a whole world of social commentary right there on the surface.\n\n Yes, the double-standard regarding murder is especially ironic in\n that light. I don't actually recall that use of \"boy\"---but then I\n wouldn't, would I.\n\n\nAh, right--I remember this from Elijah Baley in _The Caves of Steel_,\nbefore he became a stinking robo-sympathizer. Excellent points. I\nremember wondering if Asimov was making a coherent point with that, or\njust appropriating a term for its emotional impact." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "For purposes of scholarly research:\n\nhttp://nullfile.com/ebooks/%28ebook%29%20Asimov,%20Isaac%20-%20I,%20Robot.pdf" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at clueland.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] } ] }