{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6250", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6250, "subject": "Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like in\n\tLong Sun!", "messages": 8, "voices": 3, "first": "2012-05-16T19:33:52+00:00", "last": "2012-05-17T11:45:05+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-05-16T19:33:52+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like in\n\tLong Sun!", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://www.orbitbooks.net/2312/\n\nFascinating!\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-05-16T19:37:24+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like\n in Long Sun!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "well, actually, I'm not sure this kind is meant for interstellar travel,\nbut, anyway, it shows how a small 'world' could be made inside a hollowed\nasteroid with an axis 'sun' source...\n\n-DOJP" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4FB4485D.6060901@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2012-05-17T00:37:49+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like\n in Long Sun!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Slap one of these babies on it and you're good to go:\n\nhttp://www.projectrho.com/portfolio/port22.html\n\nIncidentally, this \"terrarium\" concept does suggest something about \nUrth: that its spacefaring technology must already have been fairly \nadvanced along these lines for Typhon to hollow out the Long Sun ship \nusing just such a process as Robinson describes. His people knew what \nthey were doing.\n\nOne might guess that his existing ships were unable to move large \npopulations because they were too small; perhaps then they performed FTL \ntravel by pure acceleration, being limited in size and therefore mass." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/16/2012 3:37 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nwell, actually, I'm not sure this kind is meant for interstellar \ntravel, but, anyway, it shows how a small 'world' could be made inside \na hollowed asteroid with an axis 'sun' source...\n\n-DOJP\n\n\n\n\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-05-17T08:25:54+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like\n in Long Sun!", "in_reply_to": "<4FB4485D.6060901@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "His people knew what they were doing.\n\n\nYeah, that's the assumption back of the entire Solar Cycle, which is highly\neffective in giving a powerful sense of decay, and, even more so to me, the\npossibility that Wolfe's narrators are only following the exploits and\ndramas of basically 'left behind' 'backwater' communities (however vast and\nseemingly complex and important to themselves, with an Autarch and what\nhave you). It actually has a strong plausibility to it.\n\nIt seems only too likely that a (inter)galactic space-faring\nmulti-terrestrial empire (or mega-galactic interaction of cultures of some\nkind) of the magnitude suggested in the works would have 'pockets' of\nleftover cultural decay in the 'boondocks' of that massive crisscrossing of\ninterstellar economy. And these pockets would have their overlords that\nwould seem immensely powerful to the inhabitants, but are really lackeys\nand peons in the larger scheme, petty tyrannical landlords in the grip of\nan ultimately laughable megalomania - .e.g Typhon. (This would fit in very\nwell with and hugely deepen Wolfe's whole focus on the 'outcasts' in the\nSolar Cycle.)\n\nHas anybody else felt like Urth and co. are just a forgotten 'tribal\nvillage' tucked away in a vastly advanced cosmic mega-culture?\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 1:37 AM, David Stockhoff wrote:\nSlap one of these babies on it and you're good to go:\n\nhttp://www.projectrho.com/**portfolio/port22.html\n\nIncidentally, this \"terrarium\" concept does suggest something about Urth:\nthat its spacefaring technology must already have been fairly advanced\nalong these lines for Typhon to hollow out the Long Sun ship using just\nsuch a process as Robinson describes. His people knew what they were doing.\n\nOne might guess that his existing ships were unable to move large\npopulations because they were too small; perhaps then they performed FTL\ntravel by pure acceleration, being limited in size and therefore mass.\n\nOn 5/16/2012 3:37 PM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "well, actually, I'm not sure this kind is meant for interstellar travel,\nbut, anyway, it shows how a small 'world' could be made inside a hollowed\nasteroid with an axis 'sun' source...\n\n-DOJP\n\n\n\n\n\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4FB4BA94.1000501@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2012-05-17T08:45:08+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like\n in Long Sun!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/17/2012 3:25 AM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\nHis people knew what they were doing.\n\n\nYeah, that's the assumption back of the entire Solar Cycle, which is\nhighly effective in giving a powerful sense of decay, and, even more so\nto me, the possibility that Wolfe's narrators are only following the\nexploits and dramas of basically 'left behind' 'backwater' communities\n(however vast and seemingly complex and important to themselves, with an\nAutarch and what have you). It actually has a strong plausibility to it.\n\nIt seems only too likely that a (inter)galactic space-faring\nmulti-terrestrial empire (or mega-galactic interaction of cultures of\nsome kind) of the magnitude suggested in the works would have 'pockets'\nof leftover cultural decay in the 'boondocks' of that massive\ncrisscrossing of interstellar economy. And these pockets would have\ntheir overlords that would seem immensely powerful to the inhabitants,\nbut are really lackeys and peons in the larger scheme, petty tyrannical\nlandlords in the grip of an ultimately laughable megalomania - .e.g\nTyphon. (This would fit in very well with and hugely deepen Wolfe's\nwhole focus on the 'outcasts' in the Solar Cycle.)\n\nHas anybody else felt like Urth and co. are just a forgotten 'tribal\nvillage' tucked away in a vastly advanced cosmic mega-culture?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I get that sense, but that Urth has staggered on in obstinate mediocrity \nlong after the mega-culture has flamed out. Typhon sets up shop between \nthe trunkless legs of Ozymandias." }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at clueland.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Daniel Petersen", "address": "danielottojackpetersen at gmail.com" }, "date": "2012-05-17T08:59:09+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like\n in Long Sun!", "in_reply_to": "<4FB4BA94.1000501@clueland.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "*I get that sense, but that Urth has staggered on in obstinate mediocrity\nlong after the mega-culture has flamed out. *\n\nAh, I hadn't thought of that - that's even more bleak! I guess the only\nquestion would be then how are the heirodules, etc. part of this 'flamed\nout' mega-culture? It would seem the whole thing is staggering on past its\n'glory days' then.\n\n*Typhon sets up shop between the trunkless legs of Ozymandias. *\n\nYes. Maybe it's part of the definition and make-up tyrant that you take no\nwarning from the ruins of tyrants before you.\n\n-DOJP" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:45 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nOn 5/17/2012 3:25 AM, Daniel Petersen wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "His people knew what they were doing.\n\n\nYeah, that's the assumption back of the entire Solar Cycle, which is\nhighly effective in giving a powerful sense of decay, and, even more so\nto me, the possibility that Wolfe's narrators are only following the\nexploits and dramas of basically 'left behind' 'backwater' communities\n(however vast and seemingly complex and important to themselves, with an\nAutarch and what have you). It actually has a strong plausibility to it.\n\nIt seems only too likely that a (inter)galactic space-faring\nmulti-terrestrial empire (or mega-galactic interaction of cultures of\nsome kind) of the magnitude suggested in the works would have 'pockets'\nof leftover cultural decay in the 'boondocks' of that massive\ncrisscrossing of interstellar economy. And these pockets would have\ntheir overlords that would seem immensely powerful to the inhabitants,\nbut are really lackeys and peons in the larger scheme, petty tyrannical\nlandlords in the grip of an ultimately laughable megalomania - .e.g\nTyphon. (This would fit in very well with and hugely deepen Wolfe's\nwhole focus on the 'outcasts' in the Solar Cycle.)\n\nHas anybody else felt like Urth and co. are just a forgotten 'tribal\nvillage' tucked away in a vastly advanced cosmic mega-culture?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I get that sense, but that Urth has staggered on in obstinate mediocrity\nlong after the mega-culture has flamed out. Typhon sets up shop between the\ntrunkless legs of Ozymandias.\n\n--\nJeff Wilson - jwilson at clueland.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >\n______________________________**_________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4FB4CDDF.4020001@clueland.com>", "from": { "name": "Jeff Wilson", "address": "jwilson at clueland.com" }, "date": "2012-05-17T10:07:27+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like\n in Long Sun!", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/17/2012 3:59 AM, Daniel Petersen wrote:\n/I get that sense, but that Urth has staggered on in obstinate\nmediocrity long after the mega-culture has flamed out. /\n\nAh, I hadn't thought of that - that's even more bleak! I guess the only\nquestion would be then how are the heirodules, etc. part of this 'flamed\nout' mega-culture? It would seem the whole thing is staggering on past\nits 'glory days' then." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I suppose the hierodules and other Yesodis sort of represent the memory \nof a fabled golden age that never was. They \"know\" humanity can do \nbetter and strive to better it a bit like an obsessive stage mother.\n\nI'm leaning toward skepticality of the literal truth of their origin, \nthough I'm not sure what the \"real\" origin would be. It makes sense for \nman's descendant to share his mythbuilding habits but if the origin as \nman's descendant is mythical, then I'm not sure why they would \nnecessarily have the mythologizing impulse.\n\nI'm also puzzled how humanity could have ascended to that exalted state \nof affairs the once and then never again approach it despite spiritual \ngrowth. Was the ascension and begatting of the pre-Yesodis achieved by \nthe power of unalloyed depravity, to be equaled by the power of \nunalloyed virtue? Or was the original achievement one of the grace \npreserved by innocence, now lost but with mankind able to return to a \nstate of grace in some future manvantara?" }, { "kind": "sig", "depth": 0, "text": "Jeff Wilson - jwilson at clueland.com\nComputational Intelligence Laboratory - Texas A&M Texarkana\n< http://www.tamut.edu/CIL >" } ] }, { "message_id": "<4FB4E4C1.8030909@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2012-05-17T11:45:05+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Simulation of a 'star crosser' (hollowed asteroid) like\n in Long Sun!", "in_reply_to": "<4FB4CDDF.4020001@clueland.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 5/17/2012 6:07 AM, Jeff Wilson wrote:\nI'm also puzzled how humanity could have ascended to that exalted \nstate of affairs the once and then never again approach it despite \nspiritual growth. Was the ascension and begatting of the pre-Yesodis \nachieved by the power of unalloyed depravity, to be equaled by the \npower of unalloyed virtue? Or was the original achievement one of the \ngrace preserved by innocence, now lost but with mankind able to return \nto a state of grace in some future manvantara? " }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Based on various characters' comments, I'd go with depravity, but I'm \nnot sure how the karmic math works out. If it does." } ] } ] }