{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6290", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6290, "subject": "Confusing passage", "messages": 7, "voices": 5, "first": "2012-09-18T03:06:15+00:00", "last": "2012-09-18T17:03:50+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2012-09-18T03:06:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confusing passage", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From On Blue's Waters, Ch. 5 section 6:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Even Hoof and Horn [sic], who must just be entering young manhood now\nwill someday be as old as Marrow and Patera Remora.....in fifty years,\nHorn and Hide [sic] may well be dead....These words, which I pen with\nso little thought- or hope- or expectation- may possibly endure long\nbeyond that, endure for two centuries or even three..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am confused by this. I could guess the first [sic] is a way of\nforshadowing that Horn's self-identity will come into question later.\nBut what about the second [sic]? Is Hide's identity also to come into\nquestion? Or does the second [sic] also refer to Horn in the clause?\n\nFWIW, I found the final sentence interesting in comparison with Gene\nWolfe's answer in the Lawrence Person interview which was done shortly\nafter Short Sun was written:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "LP: Final question! Homer, of course, is one of those writers whose \nwork is remembered, at least in his case, thousands of years after his \ndeath. How well do you think your own work will be remembered?" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "GW: Oh Lord! (long pause) Goodness sake. (pause) This is really, really a \nmean question that you're asking.....Uh, I don't know. Two or three hundred \nyears, possibly. It's very hard to answer that without being either falsely \nmodest or braggadocios. I would guess, a couple, three hundred years. That's \nonly a guess." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "http://home.roadrunner.com/~lperson1/wolfe.html \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<253D78D3E75D4C27B39135879602BEF2@Rover>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2012-09-18T10:27:39+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confusing passage", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: Lee Berman " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From On Blue's Waters, Ch. 5 section 6:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": " Even Hoof and Horn [sic], who must just be entering young manhood now\n will someday be as old as Marrow and Patera Remora.....in fifty years,\n Horn and Hide [sic] may well be dead....These words, which I pen with\n so little thought- or hope- or expectation- may possibly endure long\n beyond that, endure for two centuries or even three..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I am confused by this. I could guess the first [sic] is a way of\nforshadowing that Horn's self-identity will come into question later.\nBut what about the second [sic]? Is Hide's identity also to come into\nquestion? Or does the second [sic] also refer to Horn in the clause?" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I say typo. It makes no sense as written, and the names are easily confusable. Reading the passage, I didn’t notice it, so it’s not implausible that author and proof-readers didn’t either.\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "<50584DF2.8010000@irit.fr>", "from": { "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV", "address": "soloviev at irit.fr" }, "date": "2012-09-18T10:33:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confusing passage", "in_reply_to": "<253D78D3E75D4C27B39135879602BEF2@Rover>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "To my mind, [sic] corresponds to both names in both cases, and attracts \nthe attention\nto the fact that the narrator knows the names Hoof and Hide, but may \nsubstitute Horn\nfor each almost indifferently - so the identity that is questioned is \nrather the\nidentity of the narrator. My impression was that it is stylistically \nnicely done.\n\nSergei Soloviev" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Gerry Quinn wrote:\n \n \n*From:* Lee Berman \n \n " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "From On Blue's Waters, Ch. 5 section 6:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": " Even Hoof and Horn [sic], who must just be entering young manhood now\n will someday be as old as Marrow and Patera Remora.....in fifty \nyears,\n Horn and Hide [sic] may well be dead....These words, which I pen with\n so little thought- or hope- or expectation- may possibly endure long\n beyond that, endure for two centuries or even three..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "I am confused by this. I could guess the first [sic] is a way of" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "forshadowing that Horn's self-identity will come into question later." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "But what about the second [sic]? Is Hide's identity also to come into" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "question? Or does the second [sic] also refer to Horn in the clause?\n \nI say typo. It makes no sense as written, and the names are easily \nconfusable. Reading the passage, I didn’t notice it, so it’s not \nimplausible that author and proof-readers didn’t either.\n \n- Gerry Quinn\n \n \n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<505869A0.2040304@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2012-09-18T12:31:28+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confusing passage", "in_reply_to": "<50584DF2.8010000@irit.fr>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Right---the two [sic]s are in the text. Lee didn't put them there. \nHorn's editors (Nettle?) did, because they were confused too." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 9/18/2012 6:33 AM, Sergei SOLOVIEV wrote:\nTo my mind, [sic] corresponds to both names in both cases, and \nattracts the attention\nto the fact that the narrator knows the names Hoof and Hide, but may \nsubstitute Horn\nfor each almost indifferently - so the identity that is questioned is \nrather the\nidentity of the narrator. My impression was that it is stylistically \nnicely done.\n\nSergei Soloviev\n\nGerry Quinn wrote:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "*From:* Lee Berman " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": "From On Blue's Waters, Ch. 5 section 6:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 3, "text": " Even Hoof and Horn [sic], who must just be entering young \nmanhood now\n will someday be as old as Marrow and Patera Remora.....in fifty \nyears,\n Horn and Hide [sic] may well be dead....These words, which I pen \nwith\n so little thought- or hope- or expectation- may possibly endure \nlong\n beyond that, endure for two centuries or even three..." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "I am confused by this. I could guess the first [sic] is a way of" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "forshadowing that Horn's self-identity will come into question later." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "But what about the second [sic]? Is Hide's identity also to come into" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "question? Or does the second [sic] also refer to Horn in the clause?\n\nI say typo. It makes no sense as written, and the names are easily \nconfusable. Reading the passage, I didn’t notice it, so it’s not \nimplausible that author and proof-readers didn’t either.\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<1347980535.54273.YahooMailClassic@web160703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2012-09-18T15:02:15+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confusing passage", "in_reply_to": "<253D78D3E75D4C27B39135879602BEF2@Rover>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "No, Silk's personality is coming through here in Horn, confusing Hoof for his feelings for \"Horn\". The [sic] is the narrators, daisy et al, putting that that is how Horn wrote it.\n\n--- On Tue, 9/18/12, Gerry Quinn wrote:\n\n\nFrom: Gerry Quinn \nSubject: Re: (urth) Confusing passage\nTo: \"The Urth Mailing List\" \nDate: Tuesday, September 18, 2012, 3:27 AM\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\n\nFrom: Lee Berman " }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "From On Blue's Waters, Ch. 5 section 6:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "??? Even Hoof and Horn [sic], who must just be entering young manhood now" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "??? will someday be as old as Marrow and Patera Remora.....in fifty years," }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "??? Horn and Hide [sic] may well be dead....These words, which I pen with" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "??? so little thought- or hope- or expectation- may possibly endure long" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "??? beyond that, endure for two centuries or even three..." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I am confused by this. I could guess the first [sic] is a way of" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "forshadowing that Horn's self-identity will come into question later." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "But what about the second [sic]? Is Hide's identity also to come into" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "question? Or does the second [sic] also refer to Horn in the clause?\n\n\n\nI say typo. It makes no sense as written, and the names are easily confusable. Reading the passage, I didn’t notice it, so it’s not implausible that author and proof-readers didn’t either.\n\n\n\n- Gerry Quinn\n\n\n\n\n-----Inline Attachment Follows-----" } ] }, { "message_id": "<7D9ED6E949654842B1CA5CE6BC0DD3EC@Rover>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2012-09-18T16:29:03+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confusing passage", "in_reply_to": "<1347980535.54273.YahooMailClassic@web160703.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: Marc Aramini" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "No, Silk's personality is coming through here in Horn, confusing Hoof\nfor his feelings for \"Horn\". The [sic] is the narrators, daisy et al, \nputting\nthat that is how Horn wrote it." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, that explanation makes sense. I hadn't realised the 'sic' was in the \ntext.\n\n- Gerry Quinn" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2012-09-18T17:03:50+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Confusing passage", "in_reply_to": "<7D9ED6E949654842B1CA5CE6BC0DD3EC@Rover>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Marc Aramini: No, Silk's personality is coming through here in Horn, confusing Hoof for his feelings \nfor \"Horn\"." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks Gerry, Sergei and David for helpful comments on this passage. I agree with Gerry that Marc\nreally hits the nail on the head with the post above. Silk has paternal feelings for Horn. Horn\nhas paternal feelings for Hoof and Hide. The feelings/names get confused in SilkHorn. This can \nnicely explain both [sic]s. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] } ] }