{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6388", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6388, "subject": "Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "messages": 8, "voices": 6, "first": "2013-06-11T16:38:16+00:00", "last": "2013-06-20T12:01:57+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "<1370968696.95253.YahooMailClassic@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2013-06-11T16:38:16+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Jonathan Laidlow and Nigel Price of Ultan's Library have been conducting a few interviews with the authors involved in the Gene Wolfe tribute anthology, and the first two interviews are up.\n\nNancy Kress:\n\n\nhttp://ultan.org.uk/shadows-of-the-new-sun-nancy-kress/\n\nMine:\nhttp://ultan.org.uk/shadows-of-the-new-sun-an-interview-with-marc-aramini/\n\nThere should be a few more coming." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2013-06-17T11:19:04+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": "<1370968696.95253.YahooMailClassic@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for sharing that Marc! You do a nice interview. My next planned Wolfe\nreview is Wizard/Knight but you reminded my of my neglect for Latro which \nmust soon be addressed. \n\n(p.s. Heh, be careful! In one interview, Gene Wolfe was explicit in specifying\nAphrodite as the sex goddess, not the love goddess, along with Ares as a soldier\ngod rather than the god of war. I assume that has significance to his work.) \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<41201B24CCC54306A7A3CB3DD3D2652D@Rover>", "from": { "name": "Gerry Quinn", "address": "gerry at bindweed.com" }, "date": "2013-06-17T11:33:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "From: Lee Berman" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "(p.s. Heh, be careful! In one interview, Gene Wolfe was explicit in \nspecifying\nAphrodite as the sex goddess, not the love goddess, along with Ares as a \nsoldier\ngod rather than the god of war. I assume that has significance to his \nwork.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In one of his books (can't remember which) Mars/Ares is referred to as the \ngod of defence.\n\n- Gerry Quinn " } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Marc Aramini", "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com" }, "date": "2013-06-17T13:35:43+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, originally I wrote just that Latro and Aphrodite made it and did not put page numbers for the references, but Nigel made a few of the references more explicit and reader friendly and added the page numbers and identified her as the goddess of love. He ran the final copy past me and I thought it came out nice. There is a meditation on how running away to fight another day can be in the province of ar te too in the second book I think. \n\nSent from my iPhone" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Jun 17, 2013, at 4:19 AM, Lee Berman wrote:\nThanks for sharing that Marc! You do a nice interview. My next planned Wolfe\nreview is Wizard/Knight but you reminded my of my neglect for Latro which \nmust soon be addressed. \n\n(p.s. Heh, be careful! In one interview, Gene Wolfe was explicit in specifying\nAphrodite as the sex goddess, not the love goddess, along with Ares as a soldier\ngod rather than the god of war. I assume that has significance to his work.) \n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Andrew Mason", "address": "andrew.mason53 at googlemail.com" }, "date": "2013-06-19T20:55:22+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Lee Berman wrote:\n\n(p.s. Heh, be careful! In one interview, Gene Wolfe was explicit in\nspecifying\nAphrodite as the sex goddess, not the love goddess, along with Ares as a\nsoldier\ngod rather than the god of war. I assume that has significance to his\nwork.)" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "True: yet the Whorl goddess Kypris, whose name derives from a title of\nAphrodite, is certainly a love goddess and not just a sex goddess. (She\ninspires Mint, for instance, with love of the city.) I would guess this is\nan example of the Wolfean theme of people growing into their assigned\nroles; if enough people see her as a love goddess, that is what she will\nbe." } ] }, { "message_id": "<51C2388D.10103@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2013-06-19T23:02:37+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/19/2013 4:55 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:\nLee Berman wrote:\n\n\n (p.s. Heh, be careful! In one interview, Gene Wolfe was explicit\n in specifying\n Aphrodite as the sex goddess, not the love goddess, along with\n Ares as a soldier\n god rather than the god of war. I assume that has significance to\n his work.)\n\n\nTrue: yet the Whorl goddess Kypris, whose name derives from a title of \nAphrodite, is certainly a love goddess and not just a sex goddess. \n(She inspires Mint, for instance, with love of the city.) I would \nguess this is an example of the Wolfean theme of people growing into \ntheir assigned roles; if enough people see her as a love goddess, that \nis what she will be." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, and sex-to-love has plain implications in terms of personal as well \nas cultural maturity, not to mention closeness-to-God." } ] }, { "message_id": "<8D03B5B6DE0D10B-179C-295AF@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com>", "from": { "name": "jbarach at aol.com", "address": "jbarach at aol.com" }, "date": "2013-06-19T23:25:33+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": "<51C2388D.10103@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "If Kypris is in proper relation to the Outsider, then she's just love, isn't she? If you worship Love as a goddess while not serving the Outsider, then she's a destructive and terrible goddess. If you serve love in right relation to the Outsider, then she's a good force. Isn't that some of what's going on?\n\nIncidentally, you have similar themes in There Are Doors. Love's a great thing, and that's why Mama (the church) is all in favor of pursuing it ... the right way. But love is also a deadly and dangerous thing and it can become an destructive and demonic idol.\n\nJohn\n\n \n\n \n\n \n\n-----Original Message-----\nFrom: David Stockhoff \nTo: The Urth Mailing List \nSent: Wed, Jun 19, 2013 6:02 pm\nSubject: Re: (urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On 6/19/2013 4:55 PM, Andrew Mason wrote:\nLee Berman wrote:\n\n\n (p.s. Heh, be careful! In one interview, Gene Wolfe was explicit\n in specifying\n Aphrodite as the sex goddess, not the love goddess, along with\n Ares as a soldier\n god rather than the god of war. I assume that has significance to\n his work.)\n\n\nTrue: yet the Whorl goddess Kypris, whose name derives from a title of \nAphrodite, is certainly a love goddess and not just a sex goddess. \n(She inspires Mint, for instance, with love of the city.) I would \nguess this is an example of the Wolfean theme of people growing into \ntheir assigned roles; if enough people see her as a love goddess, that \nis what she will be." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Yes, and sex-to-love has plain implications in terms of personal as well \nas cultural maturity, not to mention closeness-to-God." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2013-06-20T12:01:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Ultan's Library Shadows of the New Sun Interviews", "in_reply_to": "<8D03B5B6DE0D10B-179C-295AF@webmail-d167.sysops.aol.com>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "jbarach:If Kypris is in proper relation to the Outsider, then she's just love, \nisn't she? If you worship Love as a goddess while not serving the Outsider...." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Within the lupine universes, is it possible to not serve the Outsider?\n\nIn my view of BotNS, we have humans who are \"pawns\" who can only move one step \nforward at a time, in contrast with a \"queen\" like Tzadkiel who can presumably\nmove multiple steps in any direction on the chessboard. Yet above Tzadkiel is the\nIncreate, who is so simultaneous on every square and within every chess piece that\nit becomes impossible to do anything (even breaking chess rules) which is not a\npart of the Increate and his plan.\n\nI'm not sure whether the Outsider is meant to represent the Increate or perhaps an\norder of divinity somewhere between Tzadkiel and the Increate. If the Outsider\nis the Increate I think it would be impossible not to serve him and his plan.\n\nBut if the Outsider is meant as something a bit lower in divinity and closer and\nmore involved with humanity (as I suspect, due to the direct Silk-Outsider connection;\nsuch a connection doesn't seem possible with the Increate), then deviation is possible.\n\nIn my view, Wolfe moves from a BotNS game analogy of chess to cards in Long/Short Sun. \nThe gods of the Whorl are physically encoded in cards and these cards get shuffled into\nnew combinations and new card \"games\" on Blue and even on the later Whorl with its godlings\nand Silk (silent and silver) as a new mainframe god. In this reshuffling, the Outsider goes \nfrom being a minor god to a somewhat all-encompassing god as the 7 book Long/Short series \nprogresses.\n\nThis might be an analogy for what Wolfe sees happening with spiritual progression on \nearth. Perhaps it is a reshuffling of divine cards which allows deities such as\nDionysus and Pan and even Jahweh to move from minor, localized gods to major, global\ngods (and back to minor in the case of Dionysus and Pan). \t\t \t \t\t " } ] } ] }