{
  "export": {
    "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6392",
    "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it.  Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.",
    "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'"
  },
  "archive": "urth",
  "thread": {
    "id": 6392,
    "subject": "Novel 3: Devil in a Forest",
    "messages": 4,
    "voices": 3,
    "first": "2013-06-21T23:00:58+00:00",
    "last": "2013-06-24T07:33:10+00:00"
  },
  "messages": [
    {
      "message_id": "<1371855658.38507.YahooMailNeo@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Marc Aramini",
        "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2013-06-21T23:00:58+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth)  Novel 3: Devil in a Forest",
      "in_reply_to": null,
      "reply_link": null,
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "The Devil in A Forest\nPublished in 1976, only a few years\nafter the inordinately confounding and unclear “The Fifth Head of Cerberus”,\nThe Devil in a Forest seems completely straightforward, especially compared to\nWolfe’s short story output in the first half of the 70s. However, there are still a few issues with\nambiguity that should at least be touched upon.\nHISTORICAL ODDITIES AND THE TEXT:\nThe very first conundrum involves the blatant anachronism of the frame quote:\nin the Christmas Carol Good King Wenceslas, which relates the story of a king\nwho wonders at the life of peasant who lives beneath St. Agnes? fountain, the\ngood king goes forth to give the peasant alms on a snowy night. His servant gets lost behind him, but King\nWenceslas? footprints have enough heat to keep him warm and on the path.\nThe problem? Historically, Wenceslas of Bohemia, who became the Czech saint, lived\nfrom 907 to 935 and was posthumously declared King. Agnes of Bohemia, whose fountain it was meant\nto be, lived at a very different time, 1211-1282. She was a Bohemian princess who gave up all\nthat wealth for a life of charity and mortification of the flesh. She was\noriginally engaged to the son of the holy Roman emperor at age 8 and when\npolitical machinations changed that destiny she turned to a spiritual\nlife. Confusingly, her brother was\nactually Wenceslaus I of Bohemia (who is NOT Good King Wenceslaus). The Bohemian St. Agnes lived 300 years after\nthe man who was inquiring about the peasant living in the shadow of her\nfountain.\nThese issues are about to get more confusing — because it is\npossible a different St. Agnes is involved — Agnes of Rome. Why bring this up? She lived from 291-304, being martyred at 13. She was beautiful but scorned her suitors,\nand so the jilted identified her as a Christian. She was dragged naked through the streets to\na brothel. In some versions of the story\nthose who tried to rape her were stricken blind, since they were interfering\nwith her symbolic marriage to Christ. This has a very close textual parallel: In Devil in a Forest, the abbe is stricken blind at the end for\ninterfering with the marriage of the character Josellen and the possibly\npagan/supernatural Barrow Man. If (as\nJosh Geller mentioned below in an old Urth list post), this is a riff on Olaf\nof Norway, then there is something neat tying the name Cloot to this. (I will flesh this out below). Wolfe intends his book to be Agnes of Rome,\nnot Agnes of Bohemia — she is mentioned as the girl saint. “He also mentions an 8th century\nsaint named Hubert.” However, the setting\nshould still probably be considered Bohemia or the Czech Republic due to the\npresence of Baba Yaga’s hut.\nWhat makes this even more confusing is the final epilogue,\nwhen modern pilgrims go to the shrine, and they read “It is also Shrine of\nSaint [illegible] who recovered his sight here after being blinded by witches —\nand lived as a holy hermit and performed many wonderful cures.” There is a\nsaint who more or less fits this description from Bohemia, named John or Ivan,\nbut he died in the ninth century. There\nis also the saint Gunther, born of a noble family, who eventually retreated to\nlive as a hermit in 1008 after an illness. There is a path from the Bavarian Forest to the village of Dobra Voda\ncalled St. Gunther’s Way. He died at the\nage of almost 90 in 1045. Is the unnamed\nabbe Gunther? I could find no reference\nto a blind Bohemian Saint, but the abbe is not originally from the community\nand it was said that he was sent by a bishop from a city. This might fight Gunther’s story more than\nIvan’s.\nThe question now remains: is the powerful authority who\ngives Mark the gold coin at the end of the tale supposed to be the historical\nWenceslas? Is the abbe Gunther or\nJohn/Ivan? Either way that fountain of\nSt. Agnes is anachronistic. The conflict\nbetween paganism and Christianity makes great sense if this is the time of\nWenceslas: his grandmother and mother argued over whether he should be\nChristian or pagan (the barrows in Bohemia from the 8th century and before were\npagan in nature). The struggle between\nMother Cloot the pagan rune caster/Baba Yaga hag and the abbe would make\nperfect sense if this tale was set in the 10th century, when Christianity’s\nhold on the Czech Republic was not yet too strong, and it would be reasonable\nfor Mark to believe in both Jesus and the Barrow Man, as he claims in the last\nchapter.??? In addition, there is the\npainting of The Virgin the charcoal burners have — somehow both Mary and\nFreya. Actually, in botany, I found this\ninteresting fact: “Freyja's name appears in numerous place names in\nScandinavia, with a high concentration in southern Sweden. Various plants in\nScandinavia once bore her name, but it was replaced with the name of the Virgin\nMary during the process of Christianization. Rural Scandinavians continued to\nacknowledge Freyja as a supernatural figure into the 19th century.” Despite all this, St. Agnes Well is in\nPrague. \nThis is complicated by the face of a man under the painting\nwhen it melts off — “the Barrow Man” Freya’s\nbrother?\nIn light of the identification of Agnes as the girl saint,\nwe can place this a bit earlier historically than the real Bohemian Agnes. \nThe relationship between paganism and Christianity in the\nwork is interesting: first the charcoal burner Gil claims that they set up “a\nstatue of the Virgin ...wherever we burn, and that does for me and mine.” She stood in Grindwalled in the old time when\nthat was the only town there was, and this new place and the new people wasn't\ndreamed of.? \nLet’s look at this city of Grindwalled. There is the fictional Grindwall, from\nTolkien: \nA small hythe of landing place used\nby the Hobbits of Breredon and Haysend, on the Brandywine river and on the\nsouthern fringes of the Old Forest. It\nwas outside the hedge of the high hay, and guarded by a strong fence that\nextended into the river called a grind. \nGrindwalled might just be the past participle of Grindwall,\nsince the fence is mostly destroyed now. Its proximity to the forest is similar. When Mark, Josellen, and Cloot\npass through the barrows and Grindwalled at night, there are hilly burrows\nwhere the old inhabitants lived and posts that extend out into the water just\nlike the Tolkien description. In\naddition, Josellen calls the remains of the fence a grind (52). The blades of enemies were cast into the\nriver to guard the ford. There is\nmention that the Good People were there (Gil, Cope, and Cloot trace their\nancestry to a previous, supplanted forest culture, and when Mark tries to chime\nin that his lineage, with his father a shepherd for Pyedmeadows, makes him a\nforest person, he is scoffed at. The\nonly other mention of Mark’s lineage (besides a Finnish dagger) comes when he\nhears the Barrow Man stalking at night and Gil coughs in bed next to him,\nmaking him think of that sound and the old dog that lived in the house of his\ninfancy).\nHistorically, there is also Grindelwald in Switzerland, but\nI am sure Devil in a Forest has a\nCzech/Bohemian setting. I could not find\na real city called Grindwalled, but my historical research is not holistic.\nSince Grindwall is not the only Tolkien nod, with the name\nof Gloin the weaver, I thought it would be interesting to look at some other\nsimilarities. Of particular interest is\nthat The Old Forest in Tolkien is also bordered by barrows. Of the Old Forest in Tolkien, this was said:\nThe Old Forest is one of the few\nsurvivors of the primordial forests which covered most of Eriador before the\nSecond Age, and it once was but the northern edge of one immense forest which\nreached all the way to Fangorn forest.\nIt is bordered in the east by the\nBarrow-downs, and in the west by the High Hay (also known as the Hedge), a\nlarge hedge which the Hobbits of Buckland cultivated after they cut the forest\nto make room for their new homes.\nThe Hobbits believed the trees of\nthe Old Forest were in some manner 'awake', and were hostile. They sway when\nthere is no wind, whisper at night, and mislead travellers deeper into the\nforest. When the trees grew too close to the Hedge, hobbits cut down the trees\nnearest and created a clearing by a bonfire. Ever since then, the trees were\nmore hostile. Deep within the Old Forest was the Withywindle Valley, a dark,\nevil and malevolent place which was the root of all the terrors of the forest.\nJust before the War of the Ring,\nthe hobbits Frodo Baggins, Samwise Gamgee, Meriadoc Brandybuck and Peregrin\nTook crossed through it trying to escape from the Black Riders. This is\ndetailed in the The Fellowship of the Ring, in the chapter called \"The Old\nForest.\" According to this chapter, the trees had attacked Buckland much\nearlier by planting themselves next to the Hedge and leaning over. After this,\nthe hobbits cleared a long strip of land on the outside of the Hedge and\ncreated a large bonfire in an area that later became known as The Bonfire\nGlade. After this, the trees became much more unfriendly to the hobbits.\nAt the south-eastern edge of the\nforest, on the bank of the river Withywindle, stood the house of Tom Bombadil,\nwho rescued Pippin and Merry when they were trapped by a tree Tom called Old\nMan Willow.\nThis is the one Wolfe text I’m not going to make any\ndefinitive claims about the trees, instead focusing on the little pouch Mother\nClute wears with its herbal scent. She\nis always chewing on the stuff and spitting it out — perhaps this is enough of\nthe vile stuff of the forest for now, which both the authority at the end\nclaims has some effect on those who believe in the supernatural, though none on\nthe true believer. Wat claims Mother\nCloot controls him at the end, his pupils vanishing as did hers under the influence\nof her herb (these pupils reminded Mark of the charcoal burner?s Virgin Mary as\nwell).\nThis pouch of herbs is said to influence the population and\nperhaps alter their consciousness to some degree — perhaps the ironic statement\nat the end “Funny to think that our own ancestors came out of all this, isn’t\nit?” ? ?My people came from Massachussetts? summons up the weird witch craft\ntrials in Salem — by some also attributed to a certain type of mass hysteria\nbrought on by a mold like Ergot of Rye. (Mother\nCloot does have fungus like hair growing on a stick like body). \nAMBIGUITIES IN THE PLOT: This might be the only Wolfe work\nwhere the references are more muddied than the text itself; however, there are\na few things that stand out. These\nambiguities include the Barrow Man walking in Mark’s dream halfway through the\nbook and his identity, Mark telling the secular authority at the end about the\ndeath of the Sexton Paul, the reason for the abbe’s blindness, and the\nhighwayman Wat’s claim that he is asleep but that Mark is awake in his dream at\nthe climax of the story. \nA brief rehash of the characters, with spoilers as to their\nfates:\nAn unnamed travelling salesman:\nshot in the throat by Wat to start the book, but Gloin the weaver speculates\nthat Wat isn’t the only fellow around with a bow. Gloin asks about whether he had any money on\nhim, and Paul the Sexton and Cope the smith fall silent. To this, Mark, the apprentice of Gloin, indicates\nthat Paul is only trying to enrage Gloin. Wat later confesses to killing him with his second best arrow.\nJosellen’s father: he runs the\nBroom and Barrel Inn, renamed after he and his deceased wife “took it\nover”. He is a stocky man and his death\nis the least ambiguous — when the soldiers occupy the town and institute something\nlike martial law (or is it just bullying on that scale?), the father wants to\nget the abbe to help treat Gloin the weaver. The abbe is hiding in Cope’s forge, and as a result, Cope thinks that\nJoselyn’s father is looking to turn him in to the authorities, so attacks him\nin fury, then leaves him outside the occupied inn. He refuses to go to the fountain of St.\nAgnes, and later dies, where Mother Cloot accuses Cope of his murder after\ncasting her runes. The reappropriation\nand renaming of the inn is recapitulated in the syncretic nature of the shrine\n(from Agnes to the abbe) and the religious sentiment of the community (from\npaganism to Christianity — Cloot seems to have real powers at times, such as\ninfluencing Wat, but her rune casting seems theatrical).\nPaul the Sexton: his death is\nactually the central mystery of the text, but it seems clear from Wat’s\nreaction at the body when he looks back at his henchman Gil that he knows Gil\nis the most likely suspect. Third person\nomniscience problematizes Wolfe because there is no longer understandable\nnarrator bias. We don’t get an account\nof Paul’s death first hand, we get it through a report of Mark. Of the charcoal burner accomplice to Wat\nnamed Gil: “He killed Cope.” He killed\nPaul the Sexton too. — I remember seeing Paul’s wound, just the same. Gil went to the meeting in the taproom that\nsame night, sire, and he had his ax with him, but of course no one thought\nanything of it. So the next time the\nsoldiers let me get close to him I asked, and he told me he’d done it. ? [Paul]\ncould make a word hurt. (249). However,\nMark’s credibility is immediately (slightly) brought into question because he\nthen lies to the authority figure when asked if he ever saw Wat steal anything\n(they took Philip’s buried coffer together). Ostensibly this is to return it to the perhaps soon to be widow of\nPhilip, but previously when Mark lights a fire for others on his own\ninitiative, it is described as “an unaccustomed burst of virtue” (208). Paul’s primary trait in the few seconds we\nsee him is an acerbic attitude that provokes.\nPhilip the Cobbler: the most fickle\nof all. He first joins the abbe, then\njoins Wat, then later believes that the abbe has betrayed them to the soldiers,\ntries to bully Mark, and they fight. He\nis the only character Mark does not bargain for with the Boar at the end in\nexchange for Wat. Wat and Mark steal the\ngold buried under his workspace.\nGloin the Weaver: he has a bad\nreputation in the household the traveling merchant visits in the\nintroduction. He drinks a great deal and\nsends Mark to work even though Mark's presence has been requested at the inn by\nthe abbe. Mark doesn't bother actually\ndoing any work, instead using the opportunity to get food from the inn. “He first joins the abbe in putting down Wat,\nthen switches sides to rob the merchant, then agrees to rob Phillip\ninstead.” He finally runs from the soldiers\nwho occupy the town and is shot by Wat’s arrow. He will probably be put to death at the end as Wat’s accomplice, even\nthough Mark tried to get his freedom by leading the soldiers occupying the town\nto Wat.\nMother Cloot: her name means a\ncloven hoof, or as Clootie, the devil. Also, as a name, Cloot comes from the ancient Daliadan clans of\nScottland’s west coast and Hebrides, from the personal name Leoid. It is a form of MacLeoid (son of Leod, son of\nOlaf the Black, King of Man and the Northern Isles. Olaf was from the dynasty of Norse Kings who\nheld the isles for centuries, and there is some legend about his lineage to\nFreya, which is interesting in light of the syncretism between Freya and The\nVirgin Mary in this book). Also, her hut\nis clearly meant to evoke the chicken legged hut of Baba Yaga. If Baba is taken literally as grandmother,\nthen perhaps her name is a derivation of Baba Yaga. Interestingly, her\nparticularly Slavic character also emphasizes her ambiguity:\na supernatural being (or one of a\ntrio of sisters of the same name) who appears as a deformed and/or\nferocious-looking woman. Baba Yaga flies around in a mortar, wields a pestle,\nand dwells deep in the forest in a hut usually described as standing on chicken\nlegs. Baba Yaga may help or hinder those that encounter or seek her out and may\nplay a maternal role and has associations with forest wildlife. According to\nVladimir Propp's folktale morphology, Baba Yaga commonly appears as either a\ndonor, villain, or may be altogether ambiguous.\nAndreas Johns identifies Baba Yaga\nas \"one of the most memorable and distinctive figures in eastern European\nfolklore,\" and observes that she is \"enigmatic\" and often\nexhibits \"striking ambiguity.\" Johns summarizes Baba Yaga as a\n\"a many-faceted figure, capable of inspiring researchers to see her as a\nCloud, Moon, Death, Winter, Snake, Bird, Pelican or Earth Goddess, totemic\nmatriarchal ancestress, female initiator, phallic mother, or archetypal\nimage\".\nThis holds true for her characterization in the book,\nsometimes seeming kind and others cruel. There is little indication that she is three, save that the fire is lit\non the mountain top at the same time as she disappears from the common room of\nthe Broom and Barrel — did she fly there and do it? This is the abbe’s first\nfear, but it is later surmised that the fire was from the approaching soldiers,\ncome to hunt down Wat and bully the population. Cloot is described as snake and wolf like — a description that Wat\nshares at least once. The abbe visits\nher, and at the end it does say that he was stricken blind by “witches” in the\nplural.\nCope the Smith: Big and strong, he\nis sullen. He pays for the abbe at the\ninn. His name implies a cape and is an\noccupational name associated with the bishopric. Thus, his close association with the abbe is\nunderstandable. He paralyzes and kills\nJosellen’s father and is in turn killed by Gil. He never wavers in his devotion to the abbe. He is killed by Gil in the\nfinale\nGil: the charcoal burner who works\nfor Wat — his murder of Paul the Sexton is related second hand by Mark, but\nmany see his murder of Cope, and it is for this that he will be tried at the\nend, along with Wat, Gloin, and Phillip.\nWat/Ganelon: the black clad Wat was\ntrained in the seminary after the forest people helped fund his education. He left and moonlights as Sieur Ganelon with\nthe money he steals. There is something\nstrange about his relationship with Mother Cloot, as they alternate between\nkindness and cruelty. He seems the more\nduplicitous of the two.\n??????????????? Barrow\nMan: Mark steps on his tumulus and since Josellen gets on top of the mysterious\nMiles Cross she is said to be promised to him. He walks in Mark’s night vision when he lays next to Gil after everyone\nhas switched from the abbe to Wat. That\nis the night the leaves turn red. There\nis a rustling of wind when Mark looks outside that might perhaps be related to\nthe Barrow Man. He is supposedly burned\nby the soldiers in the final battle, as is the painting of Mary/Freya. \nSHIFTING AFFILIATIONS: The book shows how little trust these folks have in each other. First the abbe gets all the people except\nJosellen’s father to agree to hunt Wat, since their revenue is hurting. At this point Phillip, the appointed leader,\ntells Gil to let Wat know he can rob the inn with impunity. Later, when Mark is with Wat, Gil says that\nWat wants Mark to attack him with the weapon. Wat later asks what Gil said, and Mark’s connotation is a bit of a\nlie. Wat doesn’t trust Gil, either. Then Mark and Josellen help Mother Cloot, who\nlets them stay the night with Wat in her hut. The next day Cloot turns against Mark and helps to plant the seeds of\nsuspicion for the murder of Paul the Sexton on Mark’s head. Wat even leads Mark to believe that the abbe\nthinks that Mark is guilty. \nWat gets everybody except the abbe, Cope, and Josellen’s\nfather to agree to help him rob a rich merchant, then that night tells everyone\nbut Phillip that he lied and that they are just going to rob Philip. When the soldiers turn up Wat turns on Mark,\nwho escapes after being stabbed. Then\nMark comes upon all the townspeople in the forest, led by the abbe. The abbe goes to deal with the soldiers, but\nPhilip believes he has betrayed them. Paul’s widow Old Sue at first accuses Mark of killing her husband then\nrepents, and later dies in the basement when they are taken by the\nsoldiers. Then Mark comes to a kind of\nagreement with the Boar, the head soldier. It turns out Wat is actually their absentee forester leader, Sieur\nGanelon, but that doesn’t stop the Boar from arresting him when given the\nchance. Cope kills Josellen’s father\nbecause he fears betrayal, though in reality Josellen’s father only wanted\ntreatment for Gloin, and finally, the Boar breaks his word and Gloin is going\nto be treated as an outlaw like Philip and Wat at the conclusion by the city\nauthorities.\nWhat is most disturbing is how little these individuals care\nfor one another in the small community: they live off the religious sentiment\nof those who come to the shrine, and now their livelihood is threatened because\nno pilgrims are coming. They all turn on\neach other at the drop of a hat. Even\nthe abbe is not above suspicion, as he frequents Mother Cloot’s house — she claims\nthat her rune bones are the left thigh bones of children (men) killed by her\nand the mothers, and that things which are not men visit her at night.\nOTHER INTERESTING OBSERVATIONS:\nAccording to Josh Geller in a 2002 Urth post:\nThere's a hamlet in the woods, the\nwoodcutters who are relics of a previous stage of civilization, a bandit who is\na woodcutter aristocrat, a witch who knows the technology of the old\ncivilization, megalithic ruins that are 'not a town' etc.\nThis is one of the most valuable\nbooks for people trying to understand the old civilization of Europe.\nThere's a story about King Olaf the\nHoly of Norway. See, it was generally known that he was a reincarnation of Olaf\nGeirstadtalf, who was buried in the mound at Geirstadt. There had been a\nprophecy to the effect, he had Olaf G.'s sword that came out of the mound etc.\nThe problem was that St.\nOlaf was occupied with the forcible\nChristianization of Norway, and it sort of looked bad that a Christian king\nshould be an incarnate elf. So they did a little stage play, where the King and\nsome of his companions (who would also have been out of the mound, by the old\nway) went to Olaf G's mound on horseback and one of the companions asked the\nKing if he didn't remember when they had been there before, and St. Olaf\nanswered that it was not possible for a person? to live more than once, because you lived once, died once and were\nresurrected once on the Last Day. Then he was overcome with emotion and rode\naway, because (in my view) what he was saying was so much at conflict with the\nreality.\n\nWolfe wiki takes the evil and failed Robin Hood approach,\nwhich I don't actually favor:\n?This may be a moral fable showing\nthe corruption inherent in the idea of a \"Robin Hood\" who robs from\nthe rich to give to the poor. \nIn this version, Wat is completely\nout for himself. He steals from \"rich\" prosperous tradesmen and\nbribes the poor charcoal burners for shelter. He tricks the village into\nhelping him and for a short time they end up living in the woods like the Merry\nMen. \nWat -- Robin Hood \nSieur Ganelon -- Sheriff of\nNottingham (also Robin in disguise, and wearing green). \nCope -- Little John \nPhillip -- possibly Will Scarlet\n(wealthy background) \nAbbot -- Friar Tuck \nJosellen -- Maid Marion \nMark -- Midge the Miller's Son\n(youngest of the band) and Allan-a-Dale (romantic sub-plot, and lives to tell\nthe tale). \nMother Cloot -- the evil abbess\nthat kills Robin in the legends. —\nEveryone in the village is preying on the travelers who are\nostensibly coming with real religious fervor, and the disappearance of that\nfervor has affected them. They blame\nWat, a forest boy who went to be a priest and became a brigand instead who\nmoonlights as a sieur. The soldiers prey\non the town’s people, the town people prey on the travelers, Wat preys on\neveryone — it’s a nasty place.\nThings to Consider: The syncretic attitude of the text in\nwhich The Virgin exists in both Pagan and Christian analogs, whether Mother\nCloot is one or three (a pretty theological question in any case), and the\nidentity of the Barrow Man — discernible or not? Tolkienesque or something\nelse? Of Slavic origin or Norse? Is this the early 11th century or\nafter the 13th? I tend to\nthink the fellow who gives Mark the gold coin is in fact probably Duke\nWenceslas, though that would make identifying the abbe as St. Gunther\nimpossible.\nResonance with other Wolfe works: The resonance with the\nmore sophisticated Latro books is evident — old religions treated with some\nrespect. One of the Wolfean tendencies\nto talk about mysteries is evident here in full force, though in this one work\nI am left with the inescapable conclusion that we actually have most of the\nsolutions, despite Mark’s lie to the man who interrogates him at the end and\ngives him the gold coin - no matter how it galls to just take Mark’s word at\nthe end. There is also something of The\nWizard Knight in these books in the juvenile character thrust into an adult\nsituation, and the vague medieval pagan/Norse subtext, though the supernatural\nin this one is far less overt."
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<51C7734E.8030501@irit.fr>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Sergei SOLOVIEV",
        "address": "soloviev at irit.fr"
      },
      "date": "2013-06-23T22:14:38+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Novel 3: Devil in a Forest",
      "in_reply_to": "<1371855658.38507.YahooMailNeo@web160705.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "I always been sure that the story happens in medieval England - Wat was \na very common name (e.g., Wat Tyler's revolt), he reminds also\nstrongly Robin Hood (I felt that is sort of de-romanticized Robin Hood), \nGanelon is in no way Tcheck as well -\nI have to re-read it, to be sure that there is (or there is not) an \nexplicit indication to England -\n\nBest\n\nSergei Soloviev"
        },
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "Marc Aramini wrote:\nThe Devil in A Forest\nPublished in 1976, only a few years after the inordinately confounding \nand unclear “The Fifth Head of Cerberus”, The Devil in a Forest seems \ncompletely straightforward, especially compared to Wolfe’s short story \noutput in the first half of the 70s.  However, there are still a few \nissues with ambiguity that should at least be touched upon.\nHISTORICAL ODDITIES AND THE TEXT: The very first conundrum involves \nthe blatant anachronism of the frame quote: in the Christmas Carol \nGood King Wenceslas, which relates the story of a king who wonders at \nthe life of peasant who lives beneath St. Agnes? fountain, the good \nking goes forth to give the peasant alms on a snowy night.  His \nservant gets lost behind him, but King Wenceslas? footprints have \nenough heat to keep him warm and on the path.\nThe problem?  Historically, Wenceslas of Bohemia, who became the Czech \nsaint, lived from 907 to 935 and was posthumously declared King.  \nAgnes of Bohemia, whose fountain it was meant to be, lived at a very \ndifferent time, 1211-1282.  She was a Bohemian princess who gave up \nall that wealth for a life of charity and mortification of the flesh. \nShe was originally engaged to the son of the holy Roman emperor at age \n8 and when political machinations changed that destiny she turned to a \nspiritual life.  Confusingly, her brother was actually Wenceslaus I of \nBohemia (who is NOT Good King Wenceslaus).  The Bohemian St. Agnes \nlived 300 years after the man who was inquiring about the peasant \nliving in the shadow of her fountain.\nThese issues are about to get more confusing — because it is possible \na different St. Agnes is involved — Agnes of Rome.  Why bring this \nup?  She lived from 291-304, being martyred at 13.  She was beautiful \nbut scorned her suitors, and so the jilted identified her as a \nChristian.  She was dragged naked through the streets to a brothel.  \nIn some versions of the story those who tried to rape her were \nstricken blind, since they were interfering with her symbolic marriage \nto Christ.  This has a very close textual parallel: In /Devil in a \nForest/, the abbe is stricken blind at the end for interfering with \nthe marriage of the character Josellen and the possibly \npagan/supernatural Barrow Man.  If (as Josh Geller mentioned below in \nan old Urth list post), this is a riff on Olaf of Norway, then there \nis something neat tying the name Cloot to this.  (I will flesh this \nout below).  Wolfe intends his book to be Agnes of Rome, not Agnes of \nBohemia — she is mentioned as the girl saint.  He also mentions an \n8^th century saint named Hubert.  However, the setting should still \nprobably be considered Bohemia or the Czech Republic due to the \npresence of Baba Yaga’s hut.\nWhat makes this even more confusing is the final epilogue, when modern \npilgrims go to the shrine, and they read “It is also Shrine of Saint \n[illegible] who recovered his sight here after being blinded by \nwitches — and lived as a holy hermit and performed many wonderful \ncures.” There is a saint who more or less fits this description from \nBohemia, named John or Ivan, but he died in the ninth century.  There \nis also the saint Gunther, born of a noble family, who eventually \nretreated to live as a hermit in 1008 after an illness.  There is a \npath from the Bavarian Forest to the village of Dobra Voda called St. \nGunther’s Way.  He died at the age of almost 90 in 1045.  Is the \nunnamed abbe Gunther?  I could find no reference to a blind Bohemian \nSaint, but the abbe is not originally from the community and it was \nsaid that he was sent by a bishop from a city.  This might fight \nGunther’s story more than Ivan’s.\nThe question now remains: is the powerful authority who gives Mark the \ngold coin at the end of the tale supposed to be the historical \nWenceslas?  Is the abbe Gunther or John/Ivan?  Either way that \nfountain of St. Agnes is anachronistic.  The conflict between paganism \nand Christianity makes great sense if this is the time of Wenceslas: \nhis grandmother and mother argued over whether he should be Christian \nor pagan (the barrows in Bohemia from the 8th century and before were \npagan in nature).  The struggle between Mother Cloot the pagan rune \ncaster/Baba Yaga hag and the abbe would make perfect sense if this \ntale was set in the 10th century, when Christianity’s hold on the \nCzech Republic was not yet too strong, and it would be reasonable for \nMark to believe in both Jesus and the Barrow Man, as he claims in the \nlast chapter.    In addition, there is the painting of The Virgin the \ncharcoal burners have — somehow both Mary and Freya.  Actually, in \nbotany, I found this interesting fact: “Freyja's name appears in \nnumerous place names in Scandinavia, with a high concentration in \nsouthern Sweden. Various plants in Scandinavia once bore her name, but \nit was replaced with the name of the Virgin Mary during the process of \nChristianization. Rural Scandinavians continued to acknowledge Freyja \nas a supernatural figure into the 19th century.”  Despite all this, \nSt. Agnes Well is in Prague. \nThis is complicated by the face of a man under the painting when it \nmelts off ?  the Barrow Man? Freya’s brother?\nIn light of the identification of Agnes as the girl saint, we can \nplace this a bit earlier historically than the real Bohemian Agnes.\nThe relationship between paganism and Christianity in the work is \ninteresting: first the charcoal burner Gil claims that they set up “a \nstatue of the Virgin ...wherever we burn, and that does for me and \nmine.  She stood in Grindwalled in the old time when that was the only \ntown there was, and this new place and the new people wasn't dreamed \nof.” \nLet’s look at this city of Grindwalled.  There is the fictional \nGrindwall, from Tolkien:\nA small hythe of landing place used by the Hobbits of Breredon and \nHaysend, on the Brandywine river and on the southern fringes of the \nOld Forest.  It was outside the hedge of the high hay, and guarded by \na strong fence that extended into the river called a grind. \nGrindwalled might just be the past participle of Grindwall, since the \nfence is mostly destroyed now.  Its proximity to the forest is \nsimilar. When Mark, Josellen, and Cloot pass through the barrows and \nGrindwalled at night, there are hilly burrows where the old \ninhabitants lived and posts that extend out into the water just like \nthe Tolkien description.  In addition, Josellen calls the remains of \nthe fence a grind (52).  The blades of enemies were cast into the \nriver to guard the ford.  There is mention that the Good People were \nthere (Gil, Cope, and Cloot trace their ancestry to a previous, \nsupplanted forest culture, and when Mark tries to chime in that his \nlineage, with his father a shepherd for Pyedmeadows, makes him a \nforest person, he is scoffed at.  The only other mention of Mark’s \nlineage (besides a Finnish dagger) comes when he hears the Barrow Man \nstalking at night and Gil coughs in bed next to him, making him think \nof that sound and the old dog that lived in the house of his infancy).\nHistorically, there is also Grindelwald in Switzerland, but I am sure \n/Devil in a Forest/ has a Czech/Bohemian setting.  I could not find a \nreal city called Grindwalled, but my historical research is not holistic.\nSince Grindwall is not the only Tolkien nod, with the name of Gloin \nthe weaver, I thought it would be interesting to look at some other \nsimilarities.  Of particular interest is that The Old Forest in \nTolkien is also bordered by barrows.  Of the Old Forest in Tolkien, \nthis was said:\nThe Old Forest is one of the few survivors of the primordial forests \nwhich covered most of Eriador before the Second Age, and it once was \nbut the northern edge of one immense forest which reached all the way \nto Fangorn forest.\nIt is bordered in the east by the Barrow-downs, and in the west by the \nHigh Hay (also known as the Hedge), a large hedge which the Hobbits of \nBuckland cultivated after they cut the forest to make room for their \nnew homes.\nThe Hobbits believed the trees of the Old Forest were in some manner \n'awake', and were hostile. They sway when there is no wind, whisper at \nnight, and mislead travellers deeper into the forest. When the trees \ngrew too close to the Hedge, hobbits cut down the trees nearest and \ncreated a clearing by a bonfire. Ever since then, the trees were more \nhostile. Deep within the Old Forest was the Withywindle Valley, a \ndark, evil and malevolent place which was the root of all the terrors \nof the forest.\nJust before the War of the Ring, the hobbits Frodo Baggins, Samwise \nGamgee, Meriadoc Brandybuck and Peregrin Took crossed through it \ntrying to escape from the Black Riders. This is detailed in the The \nFellowship of the Ring, in the chapter called \"The Old Forest.\" \nAccording to this chapter, the trees had attacked Buckland much \nearlier by planting themselves next to the Hedge and leaning over. \nAfter this, the hobbits cleared a long strip of land on the outside of \nthe Hedge and created a large bonfire in an area that later became \nknown as The Bonfire Glade. After this, the trees became much more \nunfriendly to the hobbits.\nAt the south-eastern edge of the forest, on the bank of the river \nWithywindle, stood the house of Tom Bombadil, who rescued Pippin and \nMerry when they were trapped by a tree Tom called Old Man Willow.\nThis is the one Wolfe text I’m not going to make any definitive claims \nabout the trees, instead focusing on the little pouch Mother Clute \nwears with its herbal scent.  She is always chewing on the stuff and \nspitting it out — perhaps this is enough of the vile stuff of the \nforest for now, which both the authority at the end claims has some \neffect on those who believe in the supernatural, though none on the \ntrue believer.  Wat claims Mother Cloot controls him at the end, his \npupils vanishing as did hers under the influence of her herb (these \npupils reminded Mark of the charcoal burner?s Virgin Mary as well).\nThis pouch of herbs is said to influence the population and perhaps \nalter their consciousness to some degree — perhaps the ironic \nstatement at the end “Funny to think that our own ancestors came out \nof all this, isn’t it?” ? ?My people came from Massachussetts? summons \nup the weird witch craft trials in Salem — by some also attributed to \na certain type of mass hysteria brought on by a mold like Ergot of \nRye.  (Mother Cloot does have fungus like hair growing on a stick like \nbody).\nAMBIGUITIES IN THE PLOT: This might be the only Wolfe work where the \nreferences are more muddied than the text itself; however, there are a \nfew things that stand out.  These ambiguities include the Barrow Man \nwalking in Mark’s dream halfway through the book and his identity, \nMark telling the secular authority at the end about the death of the \nSexton Paul, the reason for the abbe’s blindness, and the highwayman \nWat’s claim that he is asleep but that Mark is awake in his dream at \nthe climax of the story. \nA brief rehash of the characters, with spoilers as to their fates:\nAn unnamed travelling salesman: shot in the throat by Wat to start the \nbook, but Gloin the weaver speculates that Wat isn’t the only fellow \naround with a bow.  Gloin asks about whether he had any money on him, \nand Paul the Sexton and Cope the smith fall silent.  To this, Mark, \nthe apprentice of Gloin, indicates that Paul is only trying to enrage \nGloin.  Wat later confesses to killing him with his second best arrow.\nJosellen’s father: he runs the Broom and Barrel Inn, renamed after he \nand his deceased wife “took it over”.  He is a stocky man and his \ndeath is the least ambiguous — when the soldiers occupy the town and \ninstitute something like martial law (or is it just bullying on that \nscale?), the father wants to get the abbe to help treat Gloin the \nweaver.  The abbe is hiding in Cope’s forge, and as a result, Cope \nthinks that Joselyn’s father is looking to turn him in to the \nauthorities, so attacks him in fury, then leaves him outside the \noccupied inn.  He refuses to go to the fountain of St. Agnes, and \nlater dies, where Mother Cloot accuses Cope of his murder after \ncasting her runes.  The reappropriation and renaming of the inn is \nrecapitulated in the syncretic nature of the shrine (from Agnes to the \nabbe) and the religious sentiment of the community (from paganism to \nChristianity — Cloot seems to have real powers at times, such as \ninfluencing Wat, but her rune casting seems theatrical).\nPaul the Sexton: his death is actually the central mystery of the \ntext, but it seems clear from Wat’s reaction at the body when he looks \nback at his henchman Gil that he knows Gil is the most likely \nsuspect.  Third person omniscience problematizes Wolfe because there \nis no longer understandable narrator bias.  We don’t get an account of \nPaul’s death first hand, we get it through a report of Mark.  Of the \ncharcoal burner accomplice to Wat named Gil: “He killed Cope.  He \nkilled Paul the Sexton too. — I remember seeing Paul’s wound, just the \nsame.  Gil went to the meeting in the taproom that same night, sire, \nand he had his ax with him, but of course no one thought anything of \nit.  So the next time the soldiers let me get close to him I asked, \nand he told me he’d done it. ? [Paul] could make a word hurt.” (249).  \nHowever, Mark’s credibility is immediately (slightly) brought into \nquestion because he then lies to the authority figure when asked if he \never saw Wat steal anything (they took Philip’s buried coffer \ntogether).  Ostensibly this is to return it to the perhaps soon to be \nwidow of Philip, but previously when Mark lights a fire for others on \nhis own initiative, it is described as “an unaccustomed burst of \nvirtue” (208).  Paul’s primary trait in the few seconds we see him is \nan acerbic attitude that provokes.\nPhilip the Cobbler: the most fickle of all.  He first joins the abbe, \nthen joins Wat, then later believes that the abbe has betrayed them to \nthe soldiers, tries to bully Mark, and they fight.  He is the only \ncharacter Mark does not bargain for with the Boar at the end in \nexchange for Wat.  Wat and Mark steal the gold buried under his workspace.\nGloin the Weaver: he has a bad reputation in the household the \ntraveling merchant visits in the introduction.  He drinks a great deal \nand sends Mark to work even though Mark's presence has been requested \nat the inn by the abbe.  Mark doesn't bother actually doing any work, \ninstead using the opportunity to get food from the inn.  He first \njoins the abbe in putting down Wat, then switches sides to rob the \nmerchant, then agrees to rob Phillip instead.  He finally runs from \nthe soldiers who occupy the town and is shot by Wat’s arrow.  He will \nprobably be put to death at the end as Wat’s accomplice, even though \nMark tried to get his freedom by leading the soldiers occupying the \ntown to Wat.\nMother Cloot: her name means a cloven hoof, or as Clootie, the devil.  \nAlso, as a name, Cloot comes from the ancient Daliadan clans of \nScottland’s west coast and Hebrides, from the personal name Leoid.  It \nis a form of MacLeoid (son of Leod, son of Olaf the Black, King of Man \nand the Northern Isles.  Olaf was from the dynasty of Norse Kings who \nheld the isles for centuries, and there is some legend about his \nlineage to Freya, which is interesting in light of the syncretism \nbetween Freya and The Virgin Mary in this book).  Also, her hut is \nclearly meant to evoke the chicken legged hut of Baba Yaga.  If Baba \nis taken literally as grandmother, then perhaps her name is a \nderivation of Baba Yaga. Interestingly, her particularly Slavic \ncharacter also emphasizes her ambiguity:\na supernatural being (or one of a trio of sisters of the same name) \nwho appears as a deformed and/or ferocious-looking woman. Baba Yaga \nflies around in a mortar, wields a pestle, and dwells deep in the \nforest in a hut usually described as standing on chicken legs. Baba \nYaga may help or hinder those that encounter or seek her out and may \nplay a maternal role and has associations with forest wildlife. \nAccording to Vladimir Propp's folktale morphology, Baba Yaga commonly \nappears as either a donor, villain, or may be altogether ambiguous.\nAndreas Johns identifies Baba Yaga as \"one of the most memorable and \ndistinctive figures in eastern European folklore,\" and observes that \nshe is \"enigmatic\" and often exhibits \"striking ambiguity.\" Johns \nsummarizes Baba Yaga as a \"a many-faceted figure, capable of inspiring \nresearchers to see her as a Cloud, Moon, Death, Winter, Snake, Bird, \nPelican or Earth Goddess, totemic matriarchal ancestress, female \ninitiator, phallic mother, or archetypal image\".\nThis holds true for her characterization in the book, sometimes \nseeming kind and others cruel.  There is little indication that she is \nthree, save that the fire is lit on the mountain top at the same time \nas she disappears from the common room of the Broom and Barrel — did \nshe fly there and do it? This is the abbe’s first fear, but it is \nlater surmised that the fire was from the approaching soldiers, come \nto hunt down Wat and bully the population.  Cloot is described as \nsnake and wolf like — a description that Wat shares at least once.  \nThe abbe visits her, and at the end it does say that he was stricken \nblind by “witches” in the plural.\nCope the Smith: Big and strong, he is sullen.  He pays for the abbe at \nthe inn.  His name implies a cape and is an occupational name \nassociated with the bishopric.  Thus, his close association with the \nabbe is understandable.  He paralyzes and kills Josellen’s father and \nis in turn killed by Gil.  He never wavers in his devotion to the \nabbe. He is killed by Gil in the finale\nGil: the charcoal burner who works for Wat — his murder of Paul the \nSexton is related second hand by Mark, but many see his murder of \nCope, and it is for this that he will be tried at the end, along with \nWat, Gloin, and Phillip.\nWat/Ganelon: the black clad Wat was trained in the seminary after the \nforest people helped fund his education.  He left and moonlights as \nSieur Ganelon with the money he steals.  There is something strange \nabout his relationship with Mother Cloot, as they alternate between \nkindness and cruelty.  He seems the more duplicitous of the two.\n                Barrow Man: Mark steps on his tumulus and since \nJosellen gets on top of the mysterious Miles Cross she is said to be \npromised to him.  He walks in Mark’s night vision when he lays next to \nGil after everyone has switched from the abbe to Wat.  That is the \nnight the leaves turn red.  There is a rustling of wind when Mark \nlooks outside that might perhaps be related to the Barrow Man.  He is \nsupposedly burned by the soldiers in the final battle, as is the \npainting of Mary/Freya. \nSHIFTING AFFILIATIONS:  The book shows how little trust these folks \nhave in each other.  First the abbe gets all the people except \nJosellen’s father to agree to hunt Wat, since their revenue is \nhurting.  At this point Phillip, the appointed leader, tells Gil to \nlet Wat know he can rob the inn with impunity.  Later, when Mark is \nwith Wat, Gil says that Wat wants Mark to attack him with the weapon.  \nWat later asks what Gil said, and Mark’s connotation is a bit of a \nlie.  Wat doesn’t trust Gil, either.  Then Mark and Josellen help \nMother Cloot, who lets them stay the night with Wat in her hut.  The \nnext day Cloot turns against Mark and helps to plant the seeds of \nsuspicion for the murder of Paul the Sexton on Mark’s head.  Wat even \nleads Mark to believe that the abbe thinks that Mark is guilty. \nWat gets everybody except the abbe, Cope, and Josellen’s father to \nagree to help him rob a rich merchant, then that night tells everyone \nbut Phillip that he lied and that they are just going to rob Philip.  \nWhen the soldiers turn up Wat turns on Mark, who escapes after being \nstabbed.  Then Mark comes upon all the townspeople in the forest, led \nby the abbe.  The abbe goes to deal with the soldiers, but Philip \nbelieves he has betrayed them.  Paul’s widow Old Sue at first accuses \nMark of killing her husband then repents, and later dies in the \nbasement when they are taken by the soldiers.  Then Mark comes to a \nkind of agreement with the Boar, the head soldier.  It turns out Wat \nis actually their absentee forester leader, Sieur Ganelon, but that \ndoesn’t stop the Boar from arresting him when given the chance.  Cope \nkills Josellen’s father because he fears betrayal, though in reality \nJosellen’s father only wanted treatment for Gloin, and finally, the \nBoar breaks his word and Gloin is going to be treated as an outlaw \nlike Philip and Wat at the conclusion by the city authorities.\nWhat is most disturbing is how little these individuals care for one \nanother in the small community: they live off the religious sentiment \nof those who come to the shrine, and now their livelihood is \nthreatened because no pilgrims are coming.  They all turn on each \nother at the drop of a hat.  Even the abbe is not above suspicion, as \nhe frequents Mother Cloot’s house — she claims that her rune bones are \nthe left thigh bones of children (men) killed by her and the mothers, \nand that things which are not men visit her at night.\nOTHER INTERESTING OBSERVATIONS:\nAccording to Josh Geller in a 2002 Urth post:\nThere's a hamlet in the woods, the woodcutters who are relics of a \nprevious stage of civilization, a bandit who is a woodcutter \naristocrat, a witch who knows the technology of the old civilization, \nmegalithic ruins that are 'not a town' etc.\nThis is one of the most valuable books for people trying to understand \nthe old civilization of Europe.\nThere's a story about King Olaf the Holy of Norway. See, it was \ngenerally known that he was a reincarnation of Olaf Geirstadtalf, who \nwas buried in the mound at Geirstadt. There had been a prophecy to the \neffect, he had Olaf G.'s sword that came out of the mound etc. The \nproblem was that St.\nOlaf was occupied with the forcible Christianization of Norway, and it \nsort of looked bad that a Christian king should be an incarnate elf. \nSo they did a little stage play, where the King and some of his \ncompanions (who would also have been out of the mound, by the old way) \nwent to Olaf G's mound on horseback and one of the companions asked \nthe King if he didn't remember when they had been there before, and \nSt. Olaf answered that it was not possible for a person  to live more \nthan once, because you lived once, died once and were resurrected once \non the Last Day. Then he was overcome with emotion and rode away, \nbecause (in my view) what he was saying was so much at conflict with \nthe reality.\n \nWolfe wiki takes the evil and failed Robin Hood approach, which I \ndon't actually favor:\n?This may be a moral fable showing the corruption inherent in the idea \nof a \"Robin Hood\" who robs from the rich to give to the poor.\nIn this version, Wat is completely out for himself. He steals from \n\"rich\" prosperous tradesmen and bribes the poor charcoal burners for \nshelter. He tricks the village into helping him and for a short time \nthey end up living in the woods like the Merry Men.\nWat -- Robin Hood\nSieur Ganelon -- Sheriff of Nottingham (also Robin in disguise, and \nwearing green).\nCope -- Little John\nPhillip -- possibly Will Scarlet (wealthy background)\nAbbot -- Friar Tuck\nJosellen -- Maid Marion\nMark -- Midge the Miller's Son (youngest of the band) and Allan-a-Dale \n(romantic sub-plot, and lives to tell the tale).\nMother Cloot -- the evil abbess that kills Robin in the legends. ?\nEveryone in the village is preying on the travelers who are ostensibly \ncoming with real religious fervor, and the disappearance of that \nfervor has affected them.  They blame Wat, a forest boy who went to be \na priest and became a brigand instead who moonlights as a sieur.  The \nsoldiers prey on the town’s people, the town people prey on the \ntravelers, Wat preys on everyone — it’s a nasty place.\nThings to Consider: The syncretic attitude of the text in which The \nVirgin exists in both Pagan and Christian analogs, whether Mother \nCloot is one or three (a pretty theological question in any case), and \nthe identity of the Barrow Man — discernible or not? Tolkienesque or \nsomething else?  Of Slavic origin or Norse?  Is this the early 11^th \ncentury or after the 13^th ?  I tend to think the fellow who gives \nMark the gold coin is in fact probably Duke Wenceslas, though that \nwould make identifying the abbe as St. Gunther impossible.\nResonance with other Wolfe works: The resonance with the more \nsophisticated Latro books is evident — old religions treated with some \nrespect.  One of the Wolfean tendencies to talk about mysteries is \nevident here in full force, though in this one work I am left with the \ninescapable conclusion that we actually have most of the solutions, \ndespite Mark’s lie to the man who interrogates him at the end and \ngives him the gold coin - no matter how it galls to just take Mark’s \nword at the end.  There is also something of The Wizard Knight in \nthese books in the juvenile character thrust into an adult situation, \nand the vague medieval pagan/Norse subtext, though the supernatural in \nthis one is far less overt.\n------------------------------------------------------------------------\n\n_______________________________________________"
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<8922BCB9-9569-4F65-AD8D-B8D5E78BB013@yahoo.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Marc Aramini",
        "address": "marcaramini at yahoo.com"
      },
      "date": "2013-06-23T23:12:02+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth)   Novel 3: Devil in a Forest",
      "in_reply_to": "<51C7734E.8030501@irit.fr>",
      "reply_link": "subject",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Perhaps it is England. Yet the presence of st. Agnes well/fountain which is a tourist stop near Prague and the hints that the tales of Baba Yaga chicken footed hut refer to mother Cloot's hut are a bit more Slavic in their character, despite the names of the characters. It would have to be a fictionalized tourist stop, then. "
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message_id": "<712598.99548.bm@smtp821.mail.ird.yahoo.com>",
      "from": {
        "name": "Mo Holkar",
        "address": "lists at ukg.co.uk"
      },
      "date": "2013-06-24T07:33:10+00:00",
      "subject": "(urth) Novel 3: Devil in a Forest",
      "in_reply_to": "<51C7734E.8030501@irit.fr>",
      "reply_link": "header",
      "blocks": [
        {
          "kind": "quote",
          "depth": 1,
          "text": "At 23:14 23/06/2013, you wrote:\nI always been sure that the story happens in medieval England - Wat \nwas a very common name (e.g., Wat Tyler's revolt), he reminds also \nstrongly Robin Hood (I felt that is sort of de-romanticized Robin \nHood), Ganelon is in no way Tcheck as well - I have to re-read it, \nto be sure that there is (or there is not) an explicit indication to \nEngland - Best Sergei Soloviev"
        },
        {
          "kind": "text",
          "depth": 0,
          "text": "Yes, Wat is a version of the common medieval English name (Germanic \norigin) Walter.\n\n(I have always felt the setting was a kind of non-specific mixed \nEurope, though, as it mingles elements from all over the place. In \naddition to these English and Czech references, the term 'abbe' is \nafaik specifically French, for example.)\n\nIt should perhaps be noted that although the carol Good King \nWenceslas has a Bohemian setting, it was written by a C19 Englishman \nfor English consumption. It's easy to imagine Wolfe being tickled by \nthe anachronism of its reference to St Agnes's Fountain (either \nignorance or poetic licence), and deciding to riff on the earlier St \nAgnes instead -- good spot, Marc!\n\nbest,\n\nMo\n\n\n# ~ # ~ #\n\nWolfeWiki -- a wiki about Gene Wolfe\nhttp://www.wolfewiki.com/pmwiki/ "
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
}