{ "export": { "source": "https://urth.darkrealm.vip/thread/urth/6407", "note": "Exported from an unofficial mirror of a public mailing list. Copyright in each message remains with the person who wrote it. Email addresses are obscured as `user at host`, the form the original archive published. This file was rebuilt from parsed fields rather than retained headers, so it is faithful in content but not byte-exact.", "addresses": "obscured as 'user at host'" }, "archive": "urth", "thread": { "id": 6407, "subject": "Quick thoughts on GATE OF HORN...", "messages": 5, "voices": 4, "first": "2013-08-06T15:29:57+00:00", "last": "2013-08-12T13:11:34+00:00" }, "messages": [ { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Brian Doherty", "address": "brianmdoherty at gmail.com" }, "date": "2013-08-06T15:29:57+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Quick thoughts on GATE OF HORN...", "in_reply_to": null, "reply_link": null, "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Overall, struck me as perhaps too Wolfean (by design, I'm sure) to be an\nentertaining and useful guide.\n\n I wanted more detailed explanations/theorizing, less purse-lipped\nblankness and names of latin plants. Let's say that a concordance that\ndoesn't tell you WHO Incanto is and why (any more than do the novels own\ncharacter lists) while giving you every Latin plant name is erring on the\nside of cleverness vs. reader interest, entertainment, or even use.\n\nReading this, sadly, rather than reminding me how much I adored SHORT SUN\nand LONG SUN, made me wonder a bit why I liked those books at all. This\nguide was not any good opportunity to revisit or think about in a new way\nthe joys of those books--mostly worked to (to this reader) drain out all\nthat joy.\n\nOther opinions and observations welcome, to be sure.\n\nBrian Doherty" } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "aaron", "address": "aaronsingleton at gmail.com" }, "date": "2013-08-06T18:22:48+00:00", "subject": "(urth) Quick thoughts on GATE OF HORN...", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "I bought this for my Kindle a few months ago, but have yet to do more than\nskim through it. Your post reminds me that I had planned a re-read with\nthe guide handy. Maybe then I can say something meaningful about it." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Tue, Aug 6, 2013 at 11:29 AM, Brian Doherty wrote:\nOverall, struck me as perhaps too Wolfean (by design, I'm sure) to be an\nentertaining and useful guide.\n\n I wanted more detailed explanations/theorizing, less purse-lipped\nblankness and names of latin plants. Let's say that a concordance that\ndoesn't tell you WHO Incanto is and why (any more than do the novels own\ncharacter lists) while giving you every Latin plant name is erring on the\nside of cleverness vs. reader interest, entertainment, or even use.\n\nReading this, sadly, rather than reminding me how much I adored SHORT SUN\nand LONG SUN, made me wonder a bit why I liked those books at all. This\nguide was not any good opportunity to revisit or think about in a new way\nthe joys of those books--mostly worked to (to this reader) drain out all\nthat joy.\n\nOther opinions and observations welcome, to be sure.\n\nBrian Doherty\n\n_______________________________________________" } ] }, { "message_id": "<5207B465.9070804@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2013-08-11T15:57:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Loganstone", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "In IGJ, chapter 14, Duko Rigoglio mentions the Loganstone, assumed to be \nthe lander that carried him and others to the Whorl. I don't see any \nspeculation about this name in Moonmilk.\n\nA logan stone is a large rock that wobbles. From the wiki for Rocking Stone:\n\n*Rocking stones* (also known as *logan stones* or /*logans*/) are large \nstones that are so \nfinely balanced that the application of just a small force causes them \nto rock. They are found throughout the world. Some are man-made \nmegaliths , but others are \nnatural, often left by glaciers. \n\nLogan or rocking stones are known in Scotland \n sometimes as *clach-br?th*. They \nmarked locations where Scottish open-air courts \n would take place. A clach-br?th is \nsometimes known as a judgment stone. The reason that courts were near \nlogan stones is that the movement of stones in such formations was used \nto determine the guilt or innocence of those accused of serious crimes \nin ancient times.\n\nThe word \"logan\" is probably derived from the word \"log\", which in an \nEnglish dialect means to rock. In fact, in some parts of the UK, rocking \nstones or logan stones are called logging stones. The word \"log\" might \nbe connected with the Danish word \"logre\", which means to \"wag a tail\". \nSome have suggested that the word \"logan\" comes from a Cornish \n expression for the \nmovement that someone makes when inebriated.\n\n\nI draw two correspondences from this:\n\n(1) Being chosen/accepted for transport on the Whorl must have been \nseen, or may be taken, as a sort of judgment. Whether positive or \nnegative in terms of loyalty to Typhon's family, I don't know. But the \njudgment connotation should fit in with the other Old \nTestament-connected \"big ideas,\" such as the Whorl itself as a demiurgic \nTower of Babel.\n\n(2) There is a Dionysiac connotation here, based on the possible \nderivation from drunken staggering.\n\n(3) Together, these seem to point to the Outsider." } ] }, { "message_id": "", "from": { "name": "Lee Berman", "address": "severiansola at hotmail.com" }, "date": "2013-08-12T13:01:25+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Loganstone", "in_reply_to": "<5207B465.9070804@verizon.net>", "reply_link": "subject", "blocks": [ { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "David Stockhoff: In IGJ, chapter 14, Duko Rigoglio mentions the Loganstone, \nassumed to be the lander that carried him and others to the Whorl." }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Thanks for calling this to our attention, David. I poked around a little and\nfound this about Loganstones, which I found to be relevant and of interest:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Their weirdness has long given them supernatural associations and made them a \nfocus for witchcraft. It was thought, for example, that the rocking stone near \nNancledrea in Cornwall could only be moved at midnight when witches were abroad; \npeople believed that if you touched it nine times at midnight, you turned into a \nwitch. The one at Land’s End was said to have been put there by a giant who rocked \nhimself to sleep on it. http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-log1.htm" }, { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Perhaps there is a loose association with the \"Mother\" of the witches on Urth, the\nCumaean, who is in contact with a being in the Fomalhaut (Fish's Mouth) star system.\nOn Blue we have the giant, fishy Mother who swallows sailors and is associated with\nAbaia, Great Scylla and Echidna, who connects back to The Cumaean (Sybil).\n\nPerhaps Wolfe didn't have the giants and witches in mind when he named the Loganstone,\nbut it seems like the possibility of a general connection exists. \t\t \t \t\t " } ] }, { "message_id": "<5208DF06.5040603@verizon.net>", "from": { "name": "David Stockhoff", "address": "dstockhoff at verizon.net" }, "date": "2013-08-12T13:11:34+00:00", "subject": "(urth) The Loganstone", "in_reply_to": "", "reply_link": "header", "blocks": [ { "kind": "text", "depth": 0, "text": "Interesting. Well, witches and giants certainly come with the territory." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "On 8/12/2013 9:01 AM, Lee Berman wrote:\nDavid Stockhoff: In IGJ, chapter 14, Duko Rigoglio mentions the Loganstone,\nassumed to be the lander that carried him and others to the Whorl." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "Thanks for calling this to our attention, David. I poked around a little and\nfound this about Loganstones, which I found to be relevant and of interest:" }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 2, "text": "Their weirdness has long given them supernatural associations and made them a\nfocus for witchcraft. It was thought, for example, that the rocking stone near\nNancledrea in Cornwall could only be moved at midnight when witches were abroad;\npeople believed that if you touched it nine times at midnight, you turned into a\nwitch. The one at Land’s End was said to have been put there by a giant who rocked\nhimself to sleep on it. http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-log1.htm\nPerhaps there is a loose association with the \"Mother\" of the witches on Urth, the\nCumaean, who is in contact with a being in the Fomalhaut (Fish's Mouth) star system." }, { "kind": "quote", "depth": 1, "text": "On Blue we have the giant, fishy Mother who swallows sailors and is associated with\nAbaia, Great Scylla and Echidna, who connects back to The Cumaean (Sybil).\n\nPerhaps Wolfe didn't have the giants and witches in mind when he named the Loganstone,\nbut it seems like the possibility of a general connection exists. \t\t \t \t\t\n_______________________________________________" } ] } ] }